faith/ religion

[hempcrow]

this is a thread which has stemmed off from a post i had in poetry/writing, entitled "GOD". it is meant to be educational and heck we might even save some lost souls from the firey lakes and dark cold streets of hell. so please remember that if you donot believe in Christ and the heavenly father known as God, then this might not be really good bedtime reading for you.. if you seek help you shall recieve, as long as it is help in the salvation or related departmenst spiritual questions are welcomed and this is merely a thread for help.. free speech applies, as long as it's not bashing anyone involved in this thread legitimately. all those who come here with problems/doubts/questions. shall be prayed for unless they donot wish for me to do so.. thank you, and God bless.

[toman]

If you come banging on my door, you're likely to get punched in the face. :bandit:

[hempcrow]

who's banging on doors? listen if you don't like this thread or anything else i post for that matter just put me on your ignore list so that we dont have to deal with eachother.

[StellaBlue]

Does that mean that all of your posts are going to be like this? What makes you think you can "save" anyone? My soul is just fine without you, thanks.

[tooter_mcgee]

Yes, there is a such thing as free speech. However, telling our members that they need to be saved from fiery lakes and the dark cold streets of hell is quite another. State your opinion, yes, but please don't push your beliefs onto others, especially when you know they don't want you too. I mean, how would you feel if a Satanist was posting and trying to push you their way? I respect your opinion, but once you've stated it, just let it be, especially if you know how you're making people feel before hand. That last sentence not only applies to this thread, hopefully we respect each other enough here to take that kind of consideration every time we post.

~~Diana

[Heresy]

I have no soul....don't take my name literally, its after a NIN song...and I guess it has something to do with my thoughts as well.

I am more a humanist than anything else. I just flat out don't believe in any god of any kind. I certainly don't have any problem with anyone else having their god of choice. Just not for me. Whatever I'm made of will go away and/or stop when I die.

[Unkle_John]

For Heresy:


he sewed his eyes shut because he is afraid to see
he tries to tell me what I put inside of me
he's got the answers to ease my curiosity
he dreamed up a god and called it Christianity
your god is dead and no one cares
if there is a hell I will see you there
he flexed his muscles to keep his flock of sheep in line
he made a virus that would kill off all the swine
his perfect kingdom of killing, suffering and pain
demands devotion atrocities done in his name
your god is dead and no one cares
drowning in his own hypocrisy
and if there is a hell I will see you there
burning with your god in humility
will you die for this?

Just so you non Nine Inch Nails fans know what he's talking about.

[unclejoe]

.


"... religion is like lifts. if you want to wear them and they make you feel good, fine.
but don't be surprised when the natives get upset when you try to nail them to their feet..."

G. CARLIN circa 1970

[Heresy]

For Heresy:



Just so you non Nine Inch Nails fans know what he's talking about.


wow, didn't realize just how much I agreed with the song till I saw it all laid out there like that.

I mean the song, of course is more F.Nietzsche then humanist, but you must pull through nihlism before you can find humanism, and that is most definitely where Trent Reznor was when he was doing this entire album.

[unclejoe]

...ouch...

[Heresy]

...ouch...


to what, the song lyrics?

[morningsunshine]

this is a thread which has stemmed off from a post i had in poetry/writing, entitled "GOD". it is meant to be educational and heck we might even save some lost souls from the firey lakes and dark cold streets of hell. so please remember that if you donot believe in Christ and the heavenly father known as God, then this might not be really good bedtime reading for you.. if you seek help you shall recieve, as long as it is help in the salvation or related departmenst spiritual questions are welcomed and this is merely a thread for help.. free speech applies, as long as it's not bashing anyone involved in this thread legitimately. all those who come here with problems/doubts/questions. shall be prayed for unless they donot wish for me to do so.. thank you, and God bless.
You'll be welcome here (http://www.christianforums.com)

Seriously man, this isn't a place to preach, there's church for that. I don't think you're going to get many positive responses by going on (and on and on) like this, it's just annoying. I personally think I'm doing just fine with my Tao Te Ching, thank you very much, and I don't need you to tell me I need to be saved or find God (because, well, I don't.) I mean, I believe in something bigger than ourselves, but this is really just too much for me.

[Dead Fan]

Im with these guys. Im jewish and follow buddhist dharma. Also I get quite enough preaching as i live in the bible belt and am the only jew in my community. I also do believe in freedom of speech as I am a libertarian so I also believe that you should not use force of any kind to hinder the rights of anybody else. So even though i disagree with what you are doing I will say that I am not going to say not to do it. I do ask that if you are going to talk about god do not say that anybody else is wrong.

[treehugger]

I also have to say that if I wanted to get preached to, I'd go to church....as long as you don't try to "convert" me you can have your beliefs. And I promise I won't try to "convert" you to Wiccan/Paganism/Buddhism.

Kath

[Dead Fan]

Wow wicca eh? That is terribly interesting to me. It is unfortunately becoming quite the fad around here to say you are wiccan. I would love to here what you have to say on the subject or some good sites with info as I am not interested in becoming wiccan but finding out what the actual belief is. :)

[treehugger]

Well, actually I'd call myself a little more of a Pagan than a Wiccan because I don't get into all the spell-casting "magik" stuff. I do think it can have results but it's more of a self visualization thing. If you visualize something and focus on it a lot your sub-conscious is going to help you to attain your goals.

I call myself a Pagan, mostly, because I believe in worshiping the Mother Earth and her cycles. Many so-called "christian" holidays actually seem to stem from Paganism.

There's a great book written by Gail Duff called "seasons of the witch" and it tells about a lot of the Wiccan festivals...mainly celebrations of solstices, equinoxes, and the like. It's pretty much earth-centered. I love it. :)

More Info (http://home.earthlink.net/~glbtrainbow/id12.html)

Kath

[Dead Fan]

Sounds good treehugger thanks bunches. :D

[PEACE FROG]

I believe in God and in Jesus Christ, I am not pushing anything on anyone. This hemp person is either a troll or a newbie chistian.....both prone to tarretts style outbursts of ignorence. He does not represent my faith. Now, I would like to see you guys (some of whom I've known for awhile) Become alittle more tolerant and REPECTFULL of my beliefs. At least as much as I am of you and yours. Don't allow someone to bate you into hateful speach, is'nt that what we've tried so deserately to stay away from. Freedom of speach and expression is awsome but just cuz you CAN say something does'nt mean you should. Its called maturity. Thanks, I love you guys. Ed- P.S.- Delta, leave my grammar alone! ;)

[tooter_mcgee]

I believe in God and in Jesus Christ, I am not pushing anything on anyone. This hemp person is either a troll or a newbie chistian.....both prone to tarretts style outbursts of ignorence. He does not represent my faith. Now, I would like to see you guys (some of whom I've known for awhile) Become alittle more tolerant and REPECTFULL of my beliefs. At least as much as I am of you and yours. Don't allow someone to bate you into hateful speach, is'nt that what we've tried so deserately to stay away from. Freedom of speach and expression is awsome but just cuz you CAN say something does'nt mean you should. Its called maturity. Thanks, I love you guys. Ed- P.S.- Delta, leave my grammar alone! ;)

Well said, and you are most definitely one of the members that help make this a great place :)

~~Diana

[toman]

feh... maturity is for suckers! :D

[hempcrow]

You'll be welcome here (http://www.christianforums.com)

Seriously man, this isn't a place to preach, there's church for that. I don't think you're going to get many positive responses by going on (and on and on) like this, it's just annoying. I personally think I'm doing just fine with my Tao Te Ching, thank you very much, and I don't need you to tell me I need to be saved or find God (because, well, I don't.) I mean, I believe in something bigger than ourselves, but this is really just too much for me.

i'm sorry everyone, i now see where i made a mistake( a huge one at that)

i was overzealous... i apologize :( i'm not trying to convert anyone i wanted a thread where if anyone wanted to know more or just come in for help through rough spots, they could.....

it is abundantly clear that the manner in which i introduced this idea into the forum was a bit wrong....... if you guys want this thread off of the forum, then i will understand, but please at least let me keep my writing up on the poetry forum... as the paper copy was destroyed some time ago.........

youur sorrowful hempcrow

[ShaDoW]

Hmmmm...I believe that there is something called "tact" that even an immature individual can learn how to use. Many mature people I have known don't know how to use "tact", and so are rather "tactless"...
Now, as far as this subject matter is concerned; I have been to many churches, I have witnessed many ceremonies, and witnessed many other things besides. Its not for me, I have my own beliefs that I have developed for myself, I also have the deepest respect for faith. I think that faith is a beautiful thing, it is great to know in your heart and soul that what you believe in is right for you, I applaud you. But I ask out of politeness and not spite that you not pray for me or force your religion down my throat I will listen, but only for so long, I know what is right for me, and that is faith.
So, just for the record; you have something, I have something, my something is very private and I do not like to share...we all have faith of some sort, but please let us think about the fact that faith is very varied and respect the fact that some people just do not want to hear about yours.
Now that I have that out on the board; I do not fault anybody for any belief they may have and wish just to be friendly and have interesting discussions about many a topic.
I walk my path,
you walk yours,
let us be friends,
out of respect for life
and individuality;
our paths
they may cross
but we are still human
still alive
and let us realize
that both our paths
may be hard sometimes
and give a helping hand
when the time arises...

[hempcrow]

morningsunshine, you were right i am welcomed at that forum. thank you for bringing it to my life and to my attention.

i am going to give a final push for this thread..
if you don't care and don't want to know, then don't read it...
this is my denotation that i am not forcing anything on anyone.
you read this post and this thread on your own....


this is to be purely an educational thread for open discussion about any faith or set of beliefs.. this includes but isn't limited to my own which shall not be named.

if anyone wants to discuss anything involving spirtuality or any other denomination of religious/non rligious beliefs i am willing to listen and offer advice where it is wanted... as for the post which spawned this thread, it was merely a work of my own art and was not meant to offend or persecute or further more attack any set of beliefs.. anyone who finds a problem with my writing shall keep there thoughts in there heads and go to helena handbasket to report any complaints. that is all... and good day to you.

[delta9]

Look at all the trolls :)

If I was a cancer, at least I was benign.

[hempcrow]

sir i am not a troll..
i'm formerly known as artisticphantom..........


far from being a troll

[CowboyHippy]

hopefully all the arguing nonsense is done
this is long, and probably doesnt make much sense, other than the 2 cents that it is. Hope it doesnt get percieved as cramming it down your throat, it's just on the table. I could go on further, but these are just a few thoughts to hopefully get some rational discussions going

now for a bit of a contribution...to help get this thread going the way i think would like to see.

here's my rap on religion (not a song, but what i have gathered over the years, not necessarily my beliefs, but it makes sense to some people, and not to others) and screw caps and spelling, i'm in a hurry, grammar too.

jumping right to god in the way presented was a stretch (for this place), but in hemps defense, he was probably taught, as i was, that studying the scriptures will not lead one to salvation, one must profess god's love to others as a test of faith. It's kinda like passing a doober, if yall can relate, just a different high

and jumping away from god into the other areas of faith and spirituality, one thing I have not had a lot of experience with is religions that deal with reincarnation, My area doesnt have a lot to offer outside of catholic methodist/prodestant. more on that at the bottom.

most religions have a few basic concepts. penalties and rewards for which there is little or no proof of, instilling a purpose and set of beliefs for the masses. Heaven or hell, say it doesn't exist, or does exist, we'll never know till we are dead, which in most cases is a one way street.

religion compells us to do good to avoid the firey depths of hell, but i will never know if my good was good enough or not till im either burning for eternity or playing a harp sitting up on a cloud.

Occasionally someone spills some ice cream or gets splashed by a truck and wallah, its the face of jesus and thusly a miracle, i dont buy it. There have been documented proof of miracles that sicence cannot dispute for all of its theorys and laws, a lot of it can be chocked up to more than human principles and such, but some thigns cannot be explained...for a reason.

basic principles aside, nearly all religions have a good place to go and a bad place to go, figures to worship and figures to fear, it's the way things work.

Most religions have a book too, or cd roms nowadays. a lot of these books swap religions from one side to the other, like how friends of one religion use the bible, but it is missing books from what i know as the bible. who took those out
and on that same note, the apocrypha, read em all, even have some really old bibles so i get to read them old school. someone took those out of most modern bibles too. am i going to hell for reading them, i cant say, it's not my job to judge. the ten commandments never said thou shalt not read the books that will be removed from the bible during a later revision. but the way i see it, those books were in there till at least the 1800's in their entirety (bibles i have from the mid 1800's 46, and 58 respectively) have them listed under apocrypha, and the older texts do not. so way back in the day some guy was like "hey judith, your in, your book is in the bible" and then in the 1800's a guy took a bunch of books out. seems rather odd to me, they were fine for many many years then axed, I have read various studies as to why, but nothing really concrete, other than they just decided too.

the bible is a great book, 100 people can read the same chapter and have 100 different reactions to it, tracing it back to the times it was compiled and written, it is greatly ahead of it's time, and extrodinarily well written, people are still arguing over it and discovering new things even to this day. that leads me to believe there is a higher power at work.

enough with the bible for now
I am told i am going to hell for believing in evolution, ok, fine then, add it to the list of other stuff i just might brun for. there is scientific evidence of evolution. period. did we evolve from a couple space rocks colliding, there is no proof of that, and i really don't buy it either. and where did the rocks come from, a cloud of gas, where did the cloud come from, what caused the big bang? a higher power isn't a cop out answer for these, but i coulsd aske questions all day and after a while "it was created by a higher power" doesnt really sound all that far fetched

thousands of years ago were we brutally killing eachother for meat and fire? I'll buy that. In comes religion, it gets the ball rolling for us to stop killing and start helping for the benefit of all, and why help when its so easy to bash you with a club, to avoid the firey depths of hell, naturally. do i believe the bible was created to turn extrinsic motivators into intrinsic ones, heavens no, I'm saying a higher powere let itself be known. Look at the jumps and missing links through the human evolutionary chain. that is a miracle, going from swinging in trees to making iron tools and houses, without a hell of a lot of a transition period.

insert the 6000 year old firmerment theory here
then figure out a way to unexplain it here, i'm still reading up on it.
they say we coexisted with all creatures and dinosaurs, till the collapse of the firmerment, i still like the idea of god with a sense of humor, burying dinosaur bones to mess with our heads

but back to the reincarnation thing
this is my latest course of study,, quest for more knowledge.
doesnt seem all that far fetched to me
energy cannot be destroyed, just change forms
our minds are filled with masses of electrical and chemical energy, and thats at only a partial useage,
we die, bodies become worm food, and maybe someday fossil fuel for george bush the 45th to sell and make billions
maybe the local college cuts us up and burns us to a crisp and we become btu's
but all those pulses in my cranium, that i am begingin to think moves on, perhaps getting distributed into lower life forms, or combined with other strong energy to become something much greater
anyone done any research (other than i know a guy that is into it)
our bodies run on a frequency, it used to be thought that being able to manipulate yourelf outside of that frequency was within our power but a dangerous game to play. I'm not going to set aside my ideals, but I am curious, and i have been able to find that different areas and religions have differing views. Someone is always backing somethign up with tests and data, so what you all got?

[morningsunshine]

where did the rocks come from, a cloud of gas, where did the cloud come from, what caused the big bang?
Read "Beyond Einstein" by Michio Kaku... it's an excellent book and explains some of these answers, and speculates as to what caused the big bang. It gets really out there and it kind of makes your brain ache but if you can comprehend the sheer weirdness of it all then it's really interesting :)

[treehugger]

I love your post and I would definitely post a coherent reply...but I'm so torn up about my basement that I'm finding it hard to think. But I definitely will reply on such a thoughtful post, when I'm in a better frame of mind.

Thank you, CowboyHippie, for such an intelligent, clear headed post. I shall try to post my reply in the same intelligent, clear headed manner.

Kath

[CowboyHippy]

usually it comes out as self contradicting, why i hate the net, i can miss something and not realize it

i could get your basement fixed for cost of materials and beer, but i have a feeling you're too far away for thatand it wouldn't be cost effective to get me and the equipment to you

i've gotten info on that book, through conversations on subjects like this, its all very interesting, the great institutions solved mysteries of the universe with probes and telescopes, but einstein did it on the back of that mornings mail...