morningsunshine's godmother

[delta9]

Do you know if it was her first attempted "ectasy" experience? It doesn't sound too much like it was MDMA (which is fairly safe in small to even larger-than-anyone-really-needs doses) that got her, unless she's one of those people that is basically allergic to it or the stimulant effect was too much for her heart... yet somehow (lack of oxygen?) she ended up braindead. Doesn't appear to add up to MDMA.

[oldkzildjians]

You're probably right about her taking a street drug, but the end result doesn't change no matter what she took.

[delta9]

You're probably right about her taking a street drug, but the end result doesn't change no matter what she took.
If she died, she died. Of course the end result doesn't change... No one is trying to change the end result; however:

... my godmother died from ecstasy...
This perception, lead to a life long (and warranted, I'm not saying it's unwarranted!) bad feelings:

... so I've stayed away from it...
All because:

Well we don't really know, I don't know much about ecstasy...
And I bet:

once I got into my experimenting years...
Even then, morningsunshine still didn't know much more about ecstasy... And it's not just morningsunshine, it's mosteveryone.

The thing of it is, the street drug "ecstasy" is supposed to be MDMA, which in and of itself, especially taken responsibly, can be fairly safe and is not especially toxic. Unfortunately, especially due to its illegality, "ecstasy" is not always JUST MDMA and it might not even contain ANY MDMA at all! The problem isn't with the drug itself, so much as it is with the education (specifically, the lack thereof) about the drug. Scare tactics get us nowhere... It's quite similar to guns, really.

Drugs don't kill people, people taking drugs they don't know anything about, usually irresponsibly and possibly without any way to be sure the drug[s] they have are even REALLY what they thought they were getting kill people.

The war on drugs kills people.

[morningsunshine]

Do you know if it was her first attempted "ectasy" experience? It doesn't sound too much like it was MDMA (which is fairly safe in small to even larger-than-anyone-really-needs doses) that got her, unless she's one of those people that is basically allergic to it or the stimulant effect was too much for her heart... yet somehow (lack of oxygen?) she ended up braindead. Doesn't appear to add up to MDMA.
All the friends that took her to the hospital said it was ecstasy. And they were obviously on it themselves, they were grating their teeth and their eyes were dilated, her mom said. What killed her probably wasn't the MDMA itself, you're right, but the other crap that was in it. Which is another reason why I want to stay away from it... what the hell do they put IN that crap? Heroin? Cocaine? Strychnine? Gross!



The thing of it is, the street drug "ecstasy" is supposed to be MDMA, which in and of itself, especially taken responsibly, can be fairly safe and is not especially toxic. Unfortunately, especially due to its illegality, "ecstasy" is not always JUST MDMA and it might not even contain ANY MDMA at all! The problem isn't with the drug itself, so much as it is with the education (specifically, the lack thereof) about the drug. Scare tactics get us nowhere... It's quite similar to guns, really.

Drugs don't kill people, people taking drugs they don't know anything about, usually irresponsibly and possibly without any way to be sure the drug[s] they have are even REALLY what they thought they were getting kill people.

The war on drugs kills people.
Nonetheless, I'm not about to go out and try it. It would be an insult to my godmother's memory and if her mom ever found out (my mom and her mom are so close, I was named after my godmother, we have the same first and, by coincidence, last name... I was "Little Kari" and she was "Big Kari") she would probably die... she's in really bad health and I don't think she could deal with something like that. I agree that the war on drugs kills more people than it saves, and taking drugs responsibly is the most important part of taking them, but I would feel so guilty if I ever did it.

[delta9]

All the friends that took her to the hospital said it was ecstasy. And they were obviously on it themselves, they were grating their teeth and their eyes were dilated, her mom said. What killed her probably wasn't the MDMA itself,
You didn't answer my question on whether or not it was her first attempt... Which is relevent, indeed :).


Which is another reason why I want to stay away from it... what the hell do they put IN that crap? Heroin? Cocaine? Strychnine? Gross!
No, Heroin in an effective oral dose won't fit in your average ecstasy pill... Same goes for cocaine I'm pretty sure... And strychine? Not really, either... People occasionally may press a pill or two or even a small batch with trace amounts of these substances, but it's really not going to do much and is very rare. The "common" adulterants are things like MDA and MDE (which are related chemicals to MDMA) and are usually pretty much not that harmful... caffeine, methamphetamine, amphetamine, ephedrine, pseudoephredrine... basically stimulants, a little harmful... DXM, the disassociative people use to "robotrip" on cough medicines, pretty harmful... Check out ecstasy data (http://www.ecstasydata.org) for more. That's the COMMON ones, anyway, and those aren't necessarily the bad or deadly ones... LOTS of things can be put in the pills especially by bad synthesis because the chemist was under time and quality pressure because of his illegal activities... PMA is a BAD one. :(


Nonetheless, I'm not about to go out and try it.
No one is asking you to. It is preferred you don't try any drugs you don't know a lot about ;).


It would be an insult to my godmother's memory and if her mom ever found out (my mom and her mom are so close, I was named after my godmother, we have the same first and, by coincidence, last name... I was "Little Kari" and she was "Big Kari") she would probably die... she's in really bad health and I don't think she could deal with something like that. I agree that the war on drugs kills more people than it saves, and taking drugs responsibly is the most important part of taking them, but I would feel so guilty if I ever did it.
Would you feel as guilty if it were legal and you knew you were taking MDMA?

[morningsunshine]

You didn't answer my question on whether or not it was her first attempt... Which is relevent, indeed :).

No one is asking you to. It is preferred you don't try any drugs you don't know a lot about ;).


Would you feel as guilty if it were legal and you knew you were taking MDMA?
It was.

I know.

Yes.

I thought there was a lot of coke in the pills, at least that's what mi amiga told me ("we got some pink strawberries last night, pink or red means a lot of heroin, and the other day we got some white diamonds, the whiter they are, that means there's a lot of coke") but then again I've never researched it for myself, nonetheless, it's obviously not a very clean drug... Ecstasy puts holes in your brain, so I've heard, yet another reason I'm not too keen on rolling... but I've never really had much interest in reading up on it (unlike my friend, psilocybe cubensis!) I tend to stick to things that come out of the ground, and are unadulterated, mostly pot and shrooms, and then the occasional acid hit, whenever it's down here, (which is NEVER) but anyway, I'm getting off the subject... if MDMA could be found in a pure form, I still don't think I'd try it, but I'd definitely feel a lot safer if I ever did.

[kermit]

Do you know if it was her first attempted "ectasy" experience? It doesn't sound too much like it was MDMA (which is fairly safe in small to even larger-than-anyone-really-needs doses) that got her, unless she's one of those people that is basically allergic to it or the stimulant effect was too much for her heart... yet somehow (lack of oxygen?) she ended up braindead. Doesn't appear to add up to MDMA.


You don't know shit about anything
I hope you don't end up hurtting someone on your "holyer than god" I'm gonna copy and paste every factoid I finds and act like I know.

On the issue of strychnine in LSD:

The following text was written by Alexander T. Shulgin in response to the overwhelming misconception that strychnine is commonly found in street samples of LSD:

"The observation of strychnine as being present in any street drug, as a by-product, or a contaminant, or an impurity has never been documented. It is a natural plant product, as are the ergots which are used in the synthesis of LSD. But they come from totally unrelated plants; there has never been a report of strychnine and an ergot alkaloid co-existing in a single species. So if the two materials are together in a drug sample, it could only be by the hand of man. I have personally looked at a large number of illicit street offerings and have never detected the presence of strychnine. The few times that I have indeed found it present, have been in legal exhibits where it usually occurred in admixture with brucine (also from the plant Strychnos nux-vomica) in criminal cases involving attempted or successful poisoning. The same argument applies to the myth that occasionally surfaces, that strychnine occurs in the white tufts of peyote. This is equally fraudulent -- it has never been reported in that cactus or any other cactus."

Furthermore, it should probably be spelled out that strychnine is not needed to bond LSD to blotter paper, nor is strychnine a breakdown product of LSD. These are probably the two most commonly repeated gross misconceptions. The source of the "strychnine is commonly found in LSD" myth may be somewhat grounded in truth. For example, in LSD: My Problem Child Albert Hoffman cites a case in the late sixties of Strychnine being found in an "LSD" sample that was a white powder. However, what is commonly claimed is that strychnine is found in a significant percentage of LSD, specifically blotter LSD, which is *not* true. Shulgin's note that he has analyzed many samples of LSD and never found strychnine is backed up by published analyses done by PharmChem and the LA County Street Drug Analysis program, which likewise never found any strychnine. This is intuitively backed up by the fact that a 5mm x 5mm "standard" square of blotter LSD only weights about 2mg and if the paper itself was made completely out of pure strychnine it is still on the very low end of Strychnine's threshold of activity. Strychnine is not the cause of tracers, cramps, nausea, or amphetamine-like LSD-effects. Its possible that poorly synthesized LSD might have other ergot derivatives in it, which might contribute to the harsh body load that some get on taking LSD. Also, the very close chemical relatives 1-Methyl-LSD and 1-Acetyl-LSD (which break down into LSD in aqueous solution) might be present in some street samples and might contribute to the harsh body load. (Petter Stafford has claimed in his Psychedelics Encyclopedia that 1-Acetyl-LSD is supposedly "smoother" than d-LSD -- thus "strychnine laced acid" may actually be pure d-LSD, while "pure lsd" may be 1-Acetyl-LSD or some substitute). And the chemicals iso-LSD and lumi-LSD which are breakdown products of LSD might contribute to the body loading on some trips, particularly via a hypothetical synergistic effect. Given this plethora of possible chemicals in street "LSD", its not needed to look to a chemical which has hardly ever been found in analyzed samples to explain variations in the strength and "cleanliness" of street acid. Its also possible that LSD itself simply causes adverse physical effects, particularly muscle cramping, in persons susceptible to it. The reported side effects of LSD (the nausea and apparent CNS stimulant effects) are commonly reported side effects of seritonergic drugs such as fluoxetine (Prozac) and buspirone (Buspar), and also are commonly reported (and typically more severe) with other psychedelics like Mescaline. Or its quite likely that the "strychnine" reactions to LSD are entirely psychosomatic. Both Leary (The Psychedelic Experience) and Lilly (Programming and Metaprogramming, Center of the Cyclone) have each observed this reaction in people who cannot handle the surge of emotion associated with a trip. Further advice would be to avoid methylxanthines (caffiene, theophylline in tea, etc) prior to dosing. Some have noted a possible synergistic effect between them and LSD causing, or contributing, to a harsh body load during a trip. And prior use of dramamine may alleviate the nausea sometimes associated with LSD, and other psychedelic drugs (although it may also effect the quality of the trip -- Shulgin has noted in PIHKAL that he shuns the use of anti-nauseants in order to experience the effects of the psychedelic, both good and bad, with no possible interference). In summary, it can't be said that we know specifically why sometimes acid feels "cleaner" than other times. However, based on the availability of plausible explanations, and the evidence of drug analysis, and general implausiblity of the whole strychnine concept, we can conclude that it isn't due to any concentration of strychnine. Also, while it can't completely be ruled out, the presence of strychnine in LSD is so minimal that the majority of LSD users will never once come across it.

Comments?

[morningsunshine]

You don't know shit about anything
I hope you don't end up hurtting someone on your "holyer than god" I'm gonna copy and paste every factoid I finds and act like I know.

On the issue of strychnine in LSD:

The following text was written by Alexander T. Shulgin in response to the overwhelming misconception that strychnine is commonly found in street samples of LSD:
Comments?
Yeah, we're not even talking about LSD, smart one.
Will you quit with your effing rampage against Delta? I'm SO SICK of all your negative energy and vibes, always putting everyone down and acting like YOU know everything. Everything you say to everyone is a put down or some smart ass comment. You aren't always right, Delta's not always right, I'm not always right, your mom's not always right... GET OVER IT! Quit acting like you're in freaking middle school, putting someone down all over the internet, blasting everyone over minor stuff and posting the most mindless, pointless crap I've ever read in my life. And even if Delta does have a problem with you, or vice versa, that's not our business and I am tired of reading a bunch of posts hinting at Delta or other people who you think are dumb, or whatever. A lot of the stuff he says, when he's not "trolling" brings a good discussion to the thread, along with other people you have put down here. So what if he gets it off of google? At least he's doing his research.. I google a lot of stuff too, because I obviously can't know everything about everything, and neither can anyone else. Why the hell are you on a happy hippie board anyway when all you do is inundate the board with your negative energy? News flash, Kermit, smoking pot doesn't make you a hippie, and acting like you are doesn't make you a person most people want to associate with on an adult level. Go find some eleven year olds to talk crap about people with.

[kermit]

Yeah, we're not even talking about LSD, smart one.
Will you quit with your effing rampage against Delta? I'm SO SICK of all your negative energy and vibes, always putting everyone down and acting like YOU know everything. Everything you say to everyone is a put down or some smart ass comment. You aren't always right, Delta's not always right, I'm not always right, your mom's not always right... GET OVER IT! Quit acting like you're in freaking middle school, putting someone down all over the internet, blasting everyone over minor stuff and posting the most mindless, pointless crap I've ever read in my life. And even if Delta does have a problem with you, or vice versa, that's not our business and I am tired of reading a bunch of posts hinting at Delta or other people who you think are dumb, or whatever. A lot of the stuff he says, when he's not "trolling" brings a good discussion to the thread, along with other people you have put down here. So what if he gets it off of google? At least he's doing his research.. I google a lot of stuff too, because I obviously can't know everything about everything, and neither can anyone else. Why the hell are you on a happy hippie board anyway when all you do is inundate the board with your negative energy? News flash, Kermit, smoking pot doesn't make you a hippie, and acting like you are doesn't make you a person most people want to associate with on an adult level. Go find some eleven year olds to talk crap about people with.


O..... MY....... GOD......... you finaly understand!!!!!!!

and I am not a hippie! I am a beer fuled RED NECK!


I have to know....... R U the goth chick.. well I already know! but do tell.

[morningsunshine]

I have to know....... R U the goth chick.. well I already know! but do tell.
Uh...
No.

[beadiebeauty]

hey morningsunshine :) how r u??

[morningsunshine]

Lol I'm fine I guess...
Kind of tired, and upset about hurricane katrina.

[beadiebeauty]

gosh i heard all about it .. its been non stop on the news over here .. are you in that area??well obviously not .. but near enough??

[morningsunshine]

I live in southern FL, so we were completely unaffected, and we were just north enough to completely avoid hurricane katrina whenever it went through Miami, about 3 hours south of here. But I'm just so angry at the lack of response in those few critical days, they should have been prepared to move in a few days before the hurricane hit, that way, once the winds died down they could have moved in immediately. Instead, it took until THURSDAY for Fema to learn about the situation at the Convention Center? It's just not right.