religion/spirituality

[musicguy]

I was getting into a pretty deep conversation with one of my freinds about the difference between religion and spirituality.
I was just curious of your guy's thoughts.

[CowboyHippy]

god unites people, religion divides them

[musicguy]

well,whati wasthinking is that spirituality is find yourself through answering questions that you think are important for yourself. Religon is someone answering answering them for you and you taking that asnwer just cause they told you that thedy have all the answers.

[Unkle_John]

god unites people, religion divides them

Well said!

[musicguy]

my take is thatpeople need to find answers to the questions that matter to them from within themselves. everyone need to find thier own answers.
"To believe in God or in a guiding force because someone tells you to is the height of stupidity. We are given senses to receive our information within. With our own eyes we see, and with our own skin we feel. With our intelligence, it is intended that we understand. But each person must puzzle it out for himself or herself. (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/27121.html)"
-Sophy Burnham
Not exactly sure who she is but i really like that one. i have help others realize this only to intern help myself come to some ofmy own answers, like the definition of love and "what is this silly thing called life" among several others. people who take others answers just because they said those were the answers is most likey just affraid to go out there and find them for themselves.

[lexy]

To me...

Religion is something that you do. It's a set of rules, guidelines, rituals, etc.

Spirituality is a connection to the spirit world, the surrendering of your own will and understanding to the possibilities of things a finite mind could never fully understand.

[PEACE FROG]

To me...

Religion is something that you do. It's a set of rules, guidelines, rituals, etc.

Spirituality is a connection to the spirit world, the surrendering of your own will and understanding to the possibilities of things a finite mind could never fully understand.VERY NICE!! circle gets the square ;)

[EarthEden]

Welcome here. Lexy! ;)

[musicguy]

Well every one should discover their answers on their own, i like number nine (http://www.stumbleupon.com/demo/?review=1#url=http://www.bluinc.com/free/human10.htm) here.

[butterflyDancer]

lexy, i couldn't have said it better :)

[puffinstuff]

You can have spirituality without religion, but you can't have religion without sprituality

[musicguy]

but you can't have religion without sprituality not logicly no, but im sure alot of people practice a religion with absolutley no spirituality what so ever

[Buffalo Head '75]

You can have spirituality without religion, but you can't have religion without sprituality

what? of course you can, see Graham, Billy.

Religion just means that you are devoted to something based on faith. There doesn't have to be spirituality there. Just a bunch of lemmings willing to wait until the comet takes them to their deaths.

But hey, if you are going to die anyways... I suppose riding the tail of Haley's Comet or in a cloud of carbon dioxide is just as good as any other.

Burning building in Wacko, TX... maybe not so much?

Hey, is any of this hitting Toman level? Whoever that is or was?

[LIBRA]

Nope, not Toman level. Cant compete ;)

[forrest]

The Golden Rules
http://www.fashionsforpeace.com/pages/golden.asp

Scroll down chose a language under The Dream.
http://www.lightworkers.org/node/4941

And You And I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4Pspv2Gmq8

I. Cord Of Life
Anderson/Bruford/Howe/Squire

A man conceived a moment's answers to the dream.
Staying the flowers daily, sensing all the themes.
As a foundation left to create the spiral aim,
A movement regained and regarded both the same,
All complete in the sight of seeds of life with you.
Changed only for a sight of sound, the space agreed.
Between the picture of time behind the face of need,
Coming quickly to terms of all expression laid,
Emotion revealed as the ocean maid,
All complete in the sight of seeds of life with you.
Oh.

Coins and crosses

Turn round tailor, assaulting

Never know their fruitless worth;

all the mornings of the interest shown,



presenting one another to the cord,

Cords are broken,

All left dying, rediscovered



Of the door that turned round,

Locked inside the mother earth.

To close the cover, all the



interest shown,

They won't hide, hold, they won't tell you,

To turn one another, to the



sign at the time float your climb.

Watching the world, watching all of the world,
Watching us go by.

And you and I climb over the sea to the valley,
And you and I reached out for reasons to call.

II. Eclipse
Anderson/Bruford/Squire

Coming quickly to terms of all expression laid,
Emotion revealed as the ocean maid,
As a movement regained and regarded both the same,
All complete in the side of seeds of life with you.

III. The Preacher the Teacher
Anderson/Bruford/Howe/Squire

Sad preacher nailed upon the coloured door of time;
Insane teacher be there reminded of the rhyme.
There'll be no mutant enemy we shall certify;
Political ends, as sad remains, will die.
Reach out as forward tastes begin to enter you.
Ooh, ooh.

I listened hard but could not see
Life tempo change out and inside me.
The preacher trained in all to lose his name;
The teacher travels, asking to be shown the same.
In the end, we'll agree, we'll accept, we'll immortalize
That the truth of the man maturing in his eyes,
All complete in the sight of seeds of life with you.

Coming quickly to terms of all expression laid,
As a moment regained and regarded both the same,
Emotion revealed as the ocean maid,
A clearer future, morning, evening, nights with you.

IV. Apocalypse
Anderson/Bruford/Howe/Squire

And you and I climb, crossing the shapes of the morning.
And you and I reach over the sun for the river.
And you and I climb, clearer, towards the movement.
And you and I called over valleys of endless seas.
http://www.yesworld.com/lyrics/CloseToTheEdge.html

[hits.of.sunshine]

So, I figured this would pique my interest due to the fact that i've been an atheist since I was 13. I AM an atheist but do feel that i am spiritual in certain aspects, and please don't respond w/ "oh but if you're atheist, you have no ability to be spiritual"...that's garbage. I find spirituality within myself. I have no god but realize that mother nature and the animals and people that surround me have a profound significance in my life so...I am without a "god" proper but believe in people and nature...so...I'm not even sure what I'm getting at. If someone would like to engage in discourse it would be welcomed but... as far as "religion", anyone can take a look at ANY (well, most) wars and see they are holy wars... but spirituality....can I believe in myself and the world (i.e. nature...) around me w/o a god, but yet still consider myself spiritual?? (sorry if this is a dumb question...been battling for a long time). I used to ascribe to the whole nihilistic philosophy...(existentialism still pervades my life but think at this point one can think and way AND be spiritual)...so if anyone has a thought it would be nice to hear. thanks. :confused:

[musicguy]

Religion just makes people blind to other ideas. Spirituality if looking at all options and picking the ones you think are the right ones. I am currently looking in to Buddhism, but definately wouldnt call myself a buddhist, just taking in their good ideas.Like the last bookI read was on Native American Philosiphy. A guess you could call me an Atheist if your a christian, but you know Christians have put conotations on so many words, like Atheist and Pagan and Secular.

[hits.of.sunshine]

Honestly, I really think it is all semantics. From my studies on buddhism, they are technically atheist, due to the fact that they don't worship a "god". I ascribe to buddhist thinking and ways of life but would never have the gumption to say "i am a buddhist"...it's more of a pick and choose type thing. existentialism to me is the most realistic, practical, accepting, and self-realizing type of philosophy. that's not to say i'm an existentialist because i think for myself...but most of their philosophical tendencies seem to be the most...realistic and beneficial ways of living. buddhism though, is a beautiful thing and i feel like i'm more of a cross between that and existentialism. (the latter though has weighed heavily on my last ten years...and i'm only in my mid twenties)...anyway...check into it if you feel so compelled. nice hearing your views.

[musicguy]

I;m gonna look into anything and everything Ive heard of. And I hadnt heard of that before.

[hits.of.sunshine]

Honestly you should, not to be preachy, but existentialism is a beautiful and wonderful concept if you truly grasp its...meaning. It is all about taking responsibility for yourself. You make your own life and at then end, you ARE alone. So the story you make throughout your life is the story that will be left behind with your loved ones. There's "good faith" and "bad faith" (i could seriously go on and on) but it's about doing what's good for yourself IN THE MOMENT and then projecting the "goodness" to others. Bad faith is simply being hypocritical. I can go on and on but there's no simple way to explain it. My favorite book of ALL TIME which is a novel but has existentialism pervading throughout (of course, on purpose) is "nausea" by jean paul sartre. sartre or camus (both french authors) are amazing. if it really interests you we can speak further but it is something that is a little obscure (as far as people ascrbing to this philosophy...) but it's well worth the reads. i mean, i'm assuming you're heard of/ read anything by nietzche...he's the guru. anyway, just wanted to throw it all out there...

[musicguy]

thats cool, I like obscure stuff. :-)

[hits.of.sunshine]

i didn't want to make it out like it's "obscure"--it's a lesser known philosophical view. many, many people know about it and think it's garbage, i just happen to think it's right on. you should definitely check it out if you're so inclined. i can recommend.......i appreciate our dialogue though. however, you and the sax need to get together and reconnect. :)

[musicguy]

1-Nothings garbage, just different.
2-That sax thing isnt a happenin.

[hits.of.sunshine]

hehehe...it's an acquired taste...like beer...never liked it until recently... maybe you'll one day have a revelation and think..oh my <void...or insert what not> the sax is beautiful...maybe not. anyhow, like talking to you...

[musicguy]

Cool cool. But i dont think there will be an ephepiphany day that goes somthing like "OMG the sax is the greatest thing ever." You say your on the east coast? Where? I'm gonna go to college in NY State.

[Buffalo Head '75]

Honestly, I really think it is all semantics. From my studies on buddhism, they are technically atheist, due to the fact that they don't worship a "god". I ascribe to buddhist thinking and ways of life but would never have the gumption to say "i am a buddhist"...it's more of a pick and choose type thing. existentialism to me is the most realistic, practical, accepting, and self-realizing type of philosophy. that's not to say i'm an existentialist because i think for myself...but most of their philosophical tendencies seem to be the most...realistic and beneficial ways of living. buddhism though, is a beautiful thing and i feel like i'm more of a cross between that and existentialism. (the latter though has weighed heavily on my last ten years...and i'm only in my mid twenties)...anyway...check into it if you feel so compelled. nice hearing your views.

My thinking is that you shouldn't be so hard on yourself. The 20's is a hard time and it's time when you really figure out who you are. That can be exciting but it also can wear you down.

You seem to be explaining yourself and apologizing at the same time. To me, I see someone who is checking out every option and finding what pieces are within their make-up. This is a good thing.

[hits.of.sunshine]

I agree definitely. Didn't mean to ramble on or apologize in any sense for my views, it just seems like they're quite different from most people and didn't want to offend :) Anyway, you're right, i'm still young, finding out what it's all really about...but who honestly ever figures that out? it's all about the journey, no?

[musicguy]

Its definately not about where your going but about your getting there.

[Buffalo Head '75]

Its definately not about where your going but about your getting there.

I thought it was all about the hokey pokey?

[musicguy]

No, unfortunatley its not all about the hoky poky.
but oh how the world would be better if it was.

[hits.of.sunshine]

it COULD be all about the hokey pokey... debate in my mind... :ufo:

[musicguy]

HAHA, i wish it were all about the hokey pokey, life would be alot easier. It may be for some(:bandit:), but i cant afford for it to be. :(

[Buffalo Head '75]

HAHA, i wish it were all about the hokey pokey, life would be alot easier. It may be for some(:bandit:), but i cant afford for it to be. :(

for Manny Ramirez it is. I love Manny.

[musicguy]

Im a McGwire fan, hes got the life.

[Buffalo Head '75]

Im a McGwire fan, hes got the life.

He is completely hounded and everyone hates him. How is that the life?

I am a big fan of his though too. He could really crush the ball.

[musicguy]

Hes got the life because I does exactly only what he absolutely loves EVERYDAY!
If only I could do only what I love everyday.
And if hes got anykind of will power, he can ignore what other people think of him.

[Buffalo Head '75]

Hes got the life because I does exactly only what he absolutely loves EVERYDAY!
If only I could do only what I love everyday.
And if hes got anykind of will power, he can ignore what other people think of him.

he seems to be doing pretty well at that. He seems to have retired and is at ease with himself. he has done more for women's rights and battered woman than every other major leaguer combined. He seems like a great guy.

[musicguy]

Thats part of why hes my fav, hes not only sucking mounds of money playing ball, hes doing somthing goood with that money for someone other than him self with it too!

[Buffalo Head '75]

Thats part of why hes my fav, hes not only sucking mounds of money playing ball, hes doing somthing goood with that money for someone other than him self with it too!
Mo Vaughn was like that too. He gives a lot back to the city of brooklyn. real nice guy.

[musicguy]

I dunno who Mo Vaughn is, but thats cool.
Its too bad that selflessness is rare amoung professional atheletes.

[Buffalo Head '75]

I dunno who Mo Vaughn is, but thats cool.
Its too bad that selflessness is rare amoung professional atheletes.

dear god I feel Old. Big Mo won the MVP in '93 or '94. He played for the Sox and then the Angels and finally the Mets.

Very similar player to Big Papi.

[hits.of.sunshine]

you guys and your sports...i think i should try to like sports. never really did (played field hockey!) i need a team.

[musicguy]

dear god I feel Old. Big Mo won the MVP in '93 or '94. He played for the Sox and then the Angels and finally the Mets.

Very similar player to Big Papi.in '93 and'94 i was 2 and 3 years old!
big papi, now i know that guy. Hes my bros fav player

[Buffalo Head '75]

you guys and your sports...i think i should try to like sports. never really did (played field hockey!) i need a team.

Celtics! :)

[Buffalo Head '75]

in '93 and'94 i was 2 and 3 years old!
big papi, now i know that guy. Hes my bros fav player

yikes. I graduated HS in '94. i should've graduated in '93... but that is another story entirely.

[musicguy]

NAW, the only sport worth its weight in stale beans is baseball
(did i saythat right?) oh well you know what I mean.
BaseBalls the only reall thinking man's sport.

[Buffalo Head '75]

NAW, the only sport worth its weight in stale beans is baseball
(did i saythat right?) oh well you know what I mean.
BaseBalls the only reall thinking man's sport.

what? Football takes far more thought than baseball.

Basketball is my favorite though. Allows for the individualism that the other sports try to minimalize.

Come on... Hoops had a guy named, "World B. Free". Greatest name of all-time!

[hits.of.sunshine]

ok so celtics...now, what sport are they? i actually grew up w/ baseball knowledge so i could dig that but i agree that basketball...i like it. enough. i guess. i'm so ignorant in the sports area...but i'm hoping the celtics aren't football. though i guessssss i could learn to love it. just don't understand it.

[musicguy]

1. football is for just a bunch of brutes
sure the quarter back has to think alittle,but not a whole lot.
2. football is just a jick sport.
3. celtics are basket ball...ick basketball just bores me, probably cause i really cant play it.

[Buffalo Head '75]

ok so celtics...now, what sport are they? i actually grew up w/ baseball knowledge so i could dig that but i agree that basketball...i like it. enough. i guess. i'm so ignorant in the sports area...but i'm hoping the celtics aren't football. though i guessssss i could learn to love it. just don't understand it.

definitely basketball! The Celtics have a long and storied tradition that ended pretty much when I was in Junior High School. They are now in 1st place and hoping that will last.

Basketball was the best in the 70's when they all had afro's!

[musicguy]

Even if they all had afros i still prbably wouldnt lke it mostly because theyre all a bunch of selfISH...!@#$%-ers. Nothing but "ME ME Me ME ME"
same with football. but in base ball its not about the money mostley its about the game as aposed to other sports.

[hits.of.sunshine]

you know, maybe i'll find a professional field hockey team, since i like that a lot (do they exist?) and be all about that...you know, wear the shirts, attend the games (though they're probably in australia or somewhere)...do the whole thing. bet, perhaps. never done that. not sure the ins and outs. sounds like a good idea. hmmmm

[musicguy]

most likely autrailia or some south american country, somthing like that, cause ive never heard of one anywhere is this country.

[hedgewitch]

I was getting into a pretty deep conversation with one of my freinds about the difference between religion and spirituality.
I was just curious of your guy's thoughts.


Religion is a guided tour, with a tour guide pointing out all the interesting facts and history.
Spirituality is going off and discovering by yourself.

Just my humble opinion.

[Buffalo Head '75]

but in base ball its not about the money mostley its about the game as aposed to other sports.

Dear Vinny, that is some damn good crack that you are smoking.

I know your young but yikes!

The NBA and it's players do more charity work and care more about the community then any of the other sports. Are they all whiney bitches, yes. Do they deserve the millions of dollars, no.

But seriously, More money to the Tsunami, more money to New Orleans, more local charity, more attempts to get affordable tickets to the fans.

They have female referees and an excellent female league (WNBA) of which I am a huge fan!

So seriously, MLB is by no means filled with players who just love the game. I think they are marketed better in that regards.

[Buffalo Head '75]

Religion is a guided tour, with a tour guide pointing out all the interesting facts and history.
Spirituality is going off and discovering by yourself.

Just my humble opinion.

I concur with this 100%.

[hits.of.sunshine]

I concur with this 100%.

as do i. nice way of putting it. it's taken me such a long time to discover any feeling of spirituality, and what a wonderful and life changing experience that is. i feel indebted.