Any Muslim Hippies here?

[Zilla]

I am not a Muslim, I am a Jew/.

I hope and pray everyday that my belief that Islam is truly a religion of peace is right. With the things that I see Muslims do in the supposed name of Allah such as, the monthly bombings in the Phillipines, the Genocide and rape of non-Muslims in Darfur, the complete mistreatment of women in Saudi Arabia, and the hundreds of attacks that have happened all over the world, it is hard for me not to believe that Islam is evil. I still try to hold out however.

All I need to hear is a Muslim...any Muslim say that these things are not truly in the name of Allah. That these people are evil and that they do not speak for Islam.

I have heard Islam is a religion of peace over and over again, but without hearing what I just said I wanted to hear above all of that means absolutely nothing to me.

I have tried on myspace to get this response in some form...Instead I was called a kaufer and told I would burn in hell. Im not sure what Kaufer is but Ill find out eventually.

So with that and growing up in the bible belt as a Jew...Im goin to hell in two religions...Im practically sprinting there.

[Unkle_John]

Excuse my ignorance, but I never understood why there was so much fighting in that part of the world.

[PEACE FROG]

Oh come on Zilla! Do you know how many people have been killed in the name of Christ? And Jews are no Choir boys either by any means. It all depends on whose spin your getting as to who did what to who. I do think it would be very interesting to have a dialogue with some one who is Muslim hippie or not. Keep an open mind though my friend and don't drink anyone's koolaid.

[lexy]

Zilla, I'm a bit confused... You said you're a Jew, but do you mean you are ethnically Jewish or that you believe in both Judaism and Islam?

I need to learn more about both those religions.

I would say the best way to know if you are 'right' in your feelings and beliefs is to really dig into the core values of the faith and see if those bear witness with you. Their sacred writings is probably the best place to start. Have you read them already? I don't mean to assume.

I can identify with your struggle. As a Christian, it breaks my heart to see evil done in the name of Yeshua and you don't have to search far to find it. I also wonder if myself and people like me can ever break down those walls of doctrine and deception and be the true Church - loving people, caring for their needs and having all things in common.

[PEACE FROG]

Excuse my ignorance, but I never understood why there was so much fighting in that part of the world. Histoical differences in entitlements and access to holly sites. Four thousand years ago Abraham, became father of both Islam and Isreal through his wife Sara (Isreal) and through her handmaiden Hagar(Islam) He had two sons Issac and Ishmael. Issac's bloodline became Isreal and Ishmael's Bloodline became the Muslim folks. They fight over a promise of land and prosperity By God, blessings to the seed of Abraham. In a nutshell.

[Zilla]

Well done Froggie...

What he said is true

I am a Jew I am not a folower of Islam.

I know that their are bad in almost all religions...the difference is that, when I ask christians I at least get somebody who says that the Christians killing in the name of Christ is aweful. I know that I believe that the Jewish man who killed 12 muslims while they were praying is not real judaism he is horrible and he is going to hell...if there is one Im not sure.

Heres what I mean.

WHen I ask the question to muslims I get the same answer..."You are a kaufer and you dont know what your talking about..." even when Im not making a statement about Islam. Ive been told Im going to hell for being a non-muslim and for being a non-christian.

WHen I asked if my girlfriend would go to hell for not being jewish to my Rabbi...I was told that god judges non-jews easier than jews. SHe is more likely to have a place in the world to come than many jews.

All I want is to hear a muslim say the same thing I have heard Christians and jews say about people who do evil things in the name of their religions. And please I would like to not be called a Kaufer for once haha.

[lexy]

Okay, I gotcha now.

I know what you mean, though I've never made any statements about the Islamic religion because I thought, just maybe, I just didn't know the right people or enough about the religion. I only know one person who goes to a Mosque but she's not exclusive to that religion or anything.

I do think, however, that whether there are any 'good' Muslims out there or not, the best thing one can do is to keep yourself from hating them, to love them regardless and forgive. They won't stop killing because they think someone may kill them. They may stop killing if they see a better way in action and choose to follow it. Or am I dreaming? :hippie:

[Zilla]

I agree. I dont hate Muslims or Islam...I believe it is a religion of peace in essence...or at least hope it is.

Im not sure if you are dreaming that would depend on what you mean by a better way in action.

[lexy]

Oh, just unconditional love and forgiveness with no memory...

...so yeah, I'm dreaming :ufo:

That's the trouble. I can't even keep that kind of harmony within the walls of my own being. Everyone does bad things. Everyone gets selfish, prideful, vengeful... Before they even realize it.

[Zilla]

That is true...who should you forgive first yourself or others? If you cant forgive yourself than to forgive others would be difficult but if you switch that it would be hupocracy...its a tough one =P

IT is a dream but whoever said dreams cant come true.

Wow I forgot how peaceful and calm the conversation is here. I love it.

[lexy]

That is true...who should you forgive first yourself or others? If you cant forgive yourself than to forgive others would be difficult but if you switch that it would be hupocracy...its a tough one =P

I'm not really sure what it means to forgive yourself. Feeling guilt is a necessary part of being a human, and really there's no way that a person can make full amends for a wrong. You can't take it back, you can only make it right to a point but it doesn't change the fact that you did it.

That is what makes sense to me about Christ, it's not a 'do this and you will be better' belief structure, but it is honest that I screwed up and I'm going to keep screwing up but because He (Christ) didn't screw up, His sacrifice covers me and it's a free gift, nothing anyone could earn. AND, if I listen to the Spirit, I can keep from screwing up so much.

Not trying to push my beliefs on anyone, just sharing the 'peace' of my mind ;) I know I'm new here, it's not my intention to invade :ufo:

I like the smilies on this board, btw...

[EarthEden]

The thing that bothers me so about Muslim is..although I know there are real A.Hs in all religions...still, no one ever hears of Hindu suicide bommers or Buddhists ones or Christian Ones or Native American ones..of all the religions in the world why does it seem that Muslim is the only religion that does this?

[musicguy]

Well what about the crusades?
or the holocaust? or Darfur?
its just that aparently its only muslums that the American media cares about
granted they arnt going to cover the events of the crusades, lol
but there are other issues in this world besides the "war on terror" that the muslims are apart of.

[EarthEden]

Well, that's true..after all the Crusades of the midevil days never really ended, did they? They are still going on as we speak.

[Zilla]

Just to point out a flaw in you logic there musicguy...

Darfur is Muslims. Most if not all of the nations of Africa above the Congo are Muslim. Somalia was Muslims commiting genocide. So is Darfur.,..Im not too sure on Rwanda.

[musicguy]

well my point was that there are other things going on in the world besides Iraq, and the media dosnt seem to think so.

[Zilla]

That is true but to that point there are events out side of Iraq that are muslim attacks on non-muslims (such as the Phillipines) that the American media doesn't care about.
The American media cares about ratings weather they are for or against the war or care either way they will show what will get people to watch them.

[musicguy]

cause no matter what you talk about related to this country, it all boils down to money.

[Zilla]

THere is definately a lot of truth in that

[musicguy]

so the moral of the story is there are radicles in every religion, and the money maker for american telivision are the muslim conflicts.

[PEACE FROG]

It does make it easier on the president when he asks for more war bucks.....no one wants to give money to a man to kill nice people. ;)

[musicguy]

unless you want to count our dieing soldiers. theyre nice people.

[Guerrilla_Minds]

Some of them but there are bad people in all walks of life. And Islam can be a religion of peace but when you start interpreting things word for word you lose the ability to think for yourself.

[musicguy]

this is probably a cliche, but why do people hate so?

[Zilla]

nature...what kind im not sure...human nature, animal nature. But people have hated for as long as...well I think forever. Animals kill other animals for females or for land or as a way to gain status but does that mean they hate the other animal? If so than it is just animal nature to hate humans just take it to another level.

[musicguy]

killing isnt necessarily hate, it could be passion....or necessity for continuation of life. but these people do it out of hate. i dont know any animal that would kill out of hate.

[Zilla]

I couldnt think of one...but then I dont kow what animals are thinking...I think a lion that loses its position to another might hate him.

[musicguy]

sure maybe, but a lion that has been "over thrown" and out of the pride will probably die, so for purposses of self continuation he might kill the leader of the pride he was shuned from. (i like animal planet)

[Zilla]

Isnt it wonderful? :smilie_lo

[musicguy]

well i supose that chimpanzees will kill out of emotion once in a while.

[LIBRA]

interestin thread.

I do not know a single muslim. But from what I here, and read, they are not all radical. Just like any culture some people take things to the extreme and it seems like the more one acts the more they react, tryin to protect something? I never understood it though, if it goes back so long youd think theyd see, uuuhh hey guys this isnt working.

I really do not know much on the subject, but I do know that I would never judge a whole religion or group of people on what the radicals of there bunch do.

[Zilla]

And thats exactly what Im trying not to do. I just want to hear anything different than we are a religion of peace kaufer...without saying that that this stuff is wrong

[PEACE FROG]

Hatred comes from fear. Fear that some need you have wont be met. Fear that someone has or will receive something you feel entitled to. Fear that someone will cause you harm. Love conquers fear. Killing just breeds more fear. Why muslim? Most Muslim people that perpetuate this type of violence are poor third world folk with absolutely no hope and nothing to lose. People that cannot defend themselves or strike back conventionally, turning themselves into a bomb is all they can do. It's Bruce Willis on Armageddon detonating the nuke on the asteroid, it's Randy Quaid flying his bomb into the flying saucer on Independance Day. 'Cept when we see it in the movies and its our guys we cheer with a tear in our eye..... but in real life? OMG these guys are f**king crazy. Guerrilla warfare my brothers and sisters. It's how we beat the Brits durring the revolutionary war.

[Zilla]

There is a difference between them and the guerrillas. I wouldnt call a suicide bomber a guerilla because guerillas have the balls to attack a military target which to me is completely part of war so I dont hold it against them. Terrorists rarely attack a military presence. That makes them complete cowards and not at the level of even guerilla fighters.

[PEACE FROG]

Killin' is killin' I find no nobility in it either way. I thought we were trying to understand hatred/violence in the middle east. I do think suicide boming is about as unconventional as warfare can get. A suicide bomber is not nessesarilly a terrorist are they?

[musicguy]

Killin' is killin' I find no nobility in it either way. I thought we were trying to understand hatred/violence in the middle east. I do think suicide boming is about as unconventional as warfare can get. A suicide bomber is not nessesarilly a terrorist are they?I think killing can be justified in times when the killer needs food, like a polar bear and a seal. Its the natural way of things. But one killing another of its on race, now that is where there is no nobility.
A terrorist is some one who their "job" is to strike terror into others. And i think that they do a good job at their job.

[Zilla]

A suicide bomber who jumps on to a bus full of innocent people screaming something about their cause...in this case usually Allah Akbar is in my mind a terrorist. A suicide bomber who does the same but to say an attacking military presence is a combatant. THey are attacking one military to another not one military to 15 people who at first are thinking..."what the fuck is that?"

[PEACE FROG]

Naw aw cantelope is not a food group.......
Peace and love to you both! :D ;)

[Zilla]

way to change the subject but im gonna have to disagree with you here

cantaloupe totaly is a food group

[PEACE FROG]

Dig you man!