Outdoor wood boiler

[LIBRA]

Ok so we sell and install them here, where I work. I have the opportunity to get one installed at my house. It would save me ALOT in propane by burning wood, but how would it effect the air? I mean my brothers say its so much better yada yada yada but I dont know?

I live in the country have tons of wood just on my property, and lots of it is already fallin timber. But I also worry about using natural resources too much and if everyone starts then what would we be left with, raping the earth some more?

Anyone have an opinion on them? Im really thinkin about doing it. The only thing Id need gas for would be my oven. Id save thousands of $.

Ive got infloor radiant heat right now, and its sweet, but I keep my heat so low that somedays its not so sweet. If I had wood, I wouldnt worry so much about the gas bills.

Hmmm I guess I should completly way out the pro's and cons.

Pro's
My brothers will not charge labor ;)
I can get the stove at cost
Id save a ton on money
Id be less dependent on propane
I will be buff as hell from cutting wood,lol

theres more I will have to think and add later


Cons
Cutting tree's seems awefull
burning would cant be good for the air
Im gonna have to bust my ass cutting wood everyday
Im just not sure if its a wise choice or not


Anyone care to add a pro or con, or any imput you have it would be great!!!

[Buffalo Head '75]

I sometimes vacation in craftsbury vermont (somewhere between the middle of nowhere and the end of the line) and quite a few people have them.

I assume they work fine. The only obvious concerns would be the smoke produced and how much wood that they use.

I suggest contacting the manufacture and asking if any tests have been run on efficiency or the environmental impact.

If they give an efficiency rating compare that against gas boilers.

[LIBRA]

My boiler is 92% effecient, its one of the bests. A munchkin boiler, made by heat transfer products. It has a low and high fire, its really cool. But I would still have that as back up heat. even then I think my boiler would produce much more co2 into the air then the outdoor boiler, i just read the outdoor boilercan have a built in catalytic combustor which almost elminates smoke. I mean wood smoke has to be better then fuel smoke no doubt about that.

I also think another pro is if there is some kinda gas outage or something crazy I would be a lil more self reliant.

[Buffalo Head '75]

My boiler is 92% effecient, its one of the bests. A munchkin boiler, made by heat transfer products. It has a low and high fire, its really cool. But I would still have that as back up heat. even then I think my boiler would produce much more co2 into the air then the outdoor boiler, i just read the outdoor boilercan have a built in catalytic combustor which almost elminates smoke. I mean wood smoke has to be better then fuel smoke no doubt about that.

I also think another pro is if there is some kinda gas outage or something crazy I would be a lil more self reliant.
Natural Gas burns wicked clean. So I am not sure and too lazy to look on the net for the easy answer.

I am thinking that the wood boiler won't be all that bad.

I am very environmental but I belive in wood fires. Fire is natural, wood is natural. It's natural.

I would say go for it.

Have you considered a wood stove for heat and cooking?

I love woodstoves.

[NCW_Woodnymph]

As far a carbon emissions go, it seems to me that the carbon in trees will be released one way or another eventually and new trees growing on your property will be taking in a lot of that CO2 as well. The same cannot be said of natural gas. So I would go with the wood burning. Just make sure that your wood is well aged so it burns as cleanly as possible. :)

:hippie:

[Buffalo Head '75]

As far a carbon emissions go, it seems to me that the carbon in trees will be released one way or another eventually and new trees growing on your property will be taking in a lot of that CO2 as well. The same cannot be said of natural gas. So I would go with the wood burning. Just make sure that your wood is well aged so it burns as cleanly as possible. :)

:hippie:
you are assuming that the natural gas doesn't seep through the earth to be emitted into the ozone, I assume.

This is one of those answers where the obvious might be false.

of course, then again, we could just have her set-up the boiler and see how it goes.

Another good point is the aging. Start building the shed now. Get as much wood as you can and learn how to stack it properly. The dryer and older you can get that wood the cleaner and smoother it will burn.

[CowboyHippy]

the co2 will be released into the atmosphere, regardless. burning the wood releases small ammounts faster. versus the ammounts that would be released through decomposition. Using deadfall you are probably doing the better thing. My woodburner has a catalyst tube that is supposd to seriously cut down the emissions. I use a freestanding model in the corner of the living room so i get the benefit of seeing and hearing the fire as well as really really warm house, usually around 78 degrees. the added mess isnt as bad as most people think, but we are careful when bringing wood in, and we have no carpet so sweeping is easy (the kirby salesman was at a loss)

your burner and boiler itself is about the most efficent way to go but many people use a heat exchanger in the furnace, so they are still just pushing hot air around the house. put 100 degree air in a bucket and 100 degree water in a bucket, let it sit for 10 minutes and see which one is still warm. heating the fluid and using that for radiant heat is 30-40% more efficent than forced air so you will have about the best use of your system.

Trees are unfortunatley not the most environmentally viable option from a renewable resource standpoint. say a tree is big enough to heat one season takes 30 years to grow and takes up X ammount of space. I think corn is the way but all thes ethanol nuts are killing that plan. (which i think is a big joke, you're still burning a fuel and making bad hydrocarbons and your causing the clearing of forests for farms and it's seriously jacking around food prices, not to mention all the extra equipment needed to make it happen) when i did the figuring for my dome it would take about 2.5 acres worth of corn at average yields to heat the house for a winter. it would take 3 years worth of unaided drying to get the moisture low enough for suitable efficent burning. not adding space for rotation to avoid nematodes thats 7.5 acres of corn growing at one time. need 3 silos now. burn one season while the most recent two are drying. corn however would replenish itslef in one season, vs the 30 yer tree. I'm no farmer and these are rough, not thoroughly researched figures, but i can tell you that buying corn to heat isn't the answer, it'd have to be grown

currently I heat with wood to save money, and my biggest thing is to not burn gas and cut dependence on foreign oil. all my wood arrives split and delivered by a tree trimming place here locally. dried hardwood...cheap. burning crap wood and wet wood is not good for efficency

absolutely anything that gets us away from burning gas is the most important thing to me.

[LIBRA]

Thats how I feel, I want to get away from it. I heat now with Lp.

Ive got to mull it over, for a bit. I bet with all the fallin timber around my house and if I asked my nieghbors I bet theyd let me get theres too, I could heat for a long time. I just have a problem with cutting trees, I now it has to be done most of the time to clear out and make room. but it just takes so long to grow back. Maybe I could start planting lots of trees every year, I hear they give tax breaks or something the dept of ag is doing for people who plant a certain amount. I read it somewhere???

Id have all summer to stock pile the wood, just more to do.
Ya the radiant heat is super eff, the system I have now is too, I just cant afford the propane anyway.
My other brother has a corn stove indoors, he loves it but corn prices are nuts so he hasnt run it all winter.

WN I read that about the carbon, the release of the burning trees, pretty much goes back into the growing trees, it recyles it :D

Cowboy the stoves we sell are Hawken Energy Stoves, they come outta Michagan. Ever heard of em?

[Buffalo Head '75]

So far us forum experts haven't convinced me one way or the other that this is better or worse for the environment. I didn't realize you were still on propane, so that sways me slightly towards the wood thing.

go for it. the planet isn't going to blow up because you have a wood boiler. do something else to offset it.

plant trees, donate to the arbor society, etc. etc.

it's not like you have a huge mansion and leave your lights on 24/7 while flying your personal jet to tahiti every weekend.

[CowboyHippy]

never heard of them but the biggest thing in my town was a carrige factory that shut down about 100 years ago, at one time employing over 400 people. took almost another hundred fore' it collapsed.

i am not for cutting trees but I am for healthy forestation programs, thinning out softwoods and other trees here and there to ecourage healthier trees to grow. where we camp at is all clearcut of thick as all get out softwoods that block the sun to so many maples and oak trees.

just a bit of a side note when it comes to you're deadfall, you might want to pick up a little black book called Pocket Ref. amongst the wealth of information in there it contains the wood btu table. an old timer said that all wood has the same btu's per lb. I am not saying its accurate, but it's not totally far off. the weight of an oak log vs a pine log.

you could go away for a weekend and fill it with osage or elm and it'll probably still be burning a couple days later when you get back.

[LIBRA]

ya thats pretty much what my bro said, some wood burns way hotter then others, the btu rating is not the same per log.

Im still thinking about it, I really dont know if I can handle that extra work load everyday on top of everything else. I guess in the winter I dont have as many things to do outside, and I wouldnt need to burn during the summer. We have one stove left and my bro is really trying to talk me onto it, pay later kinda deal, or take a bit out of my ck a week. We'll see, if it werent for that I could never afford one to be installed so its good chance and I dont know when or if we are gonna get another truck load, business is slllloooooww!!!

[Buffalo Head '75]

our business (fireplaces) is hurting too. Think of it this way, you get to be on a payment plan and your brother gets the business.

It is really only a couple of weekends of work. You will get good with the axe in no time and it is excellent excercise. Make sure to buy a quality ax and saw. A poor one will break within a year.

Eventually you are going to have help with it (get to work son) and that will make it easier.

it's more work but it is good work. chopping wood is good for the soul.

[LIBRA]

oh you bet as soon as kris is old enough, he will be doing alot. He already helps me a great deal, somedays he doesnt want to but he knows how hard I work, so he helps. He picks up sticks, rocks in the yard, helps me weed. He loves turning the compost,lol

[Buffalo Head '75]

oh you bet as soon as kris is old enough, he will be doing alot. He already helps me a great deal, somedays he doesnt want to but he knows how hard I work, so he helps. He picks up sticks, rocks in the yard, helps me weed. He loves turning the compost,lolI can't think of anything I would rather do than turn compost. Oh yeah, that would be to service the composting toilet to get the decomposing going on.

if you decide to go for it please give me an update because I was strongly considering one if I ever go from Condo to House.

[LIBRA]

Im not going to do it. If I am going to spend the $$ on a new way to heat without using propane I am going to invest in solar energy. Ive been thinking and thinking about it. Even if I bought a few solar panels now and kept adding on, in a few years I could be all set. I live on a mountain, close to the sun :D

I also have a spring that runs down back of my house, I wonder if I could some how harness that energy?

So no stove. Im gonna hold out and go as solar as I can afford too, a wee bit at a time.

[Buffalo Head '75]

Im not going to do it. If I am going to spend the $$ on a new way to heat without using propane I am going to invest in solar energy. Ive been thinking and thinking about it. Even if I bought a few solar panels now and kept adding on, in a few years I could be all set. I live on a mountain, close to the sun :D

I also have a spring that runs down back of my house, I wonder if I could some how harness that energy?

So no stove. Im gonna hold out and go as solar as I can afford too, a wee bit at a time.solar would be awesome if you can afford it. Can't get much cheaper than that once you get past the initial sticker shock!

[LIBRA]

a lil at a time! The stove my brothers wanted me to buy was $5,000 plus other materials, piping etc. Id have to take a loan out regardless, so why not do a lil each yr. We also own some storage sheds that I manage and I could keep anything there that I needed too.

Id still have to use my boiler and propane I dont think I could rely on solar alone, but then again I am not 100% sure either way.

Cutting tree's for heat just seems not right to me, I couldnt agree that it is the lesser of two evils? Just doesnt sit well.

[Buffalo Head '75]

yeah, but if you cut your propane use by even 30% you would notice a savings. I think you have a good plan.

[CowboyHippy]

a lil at a time! The stove my brothers wanted me to buy was $5,000 plus other materials, piping etc. Id have to take a loan out regardless, so why not do a lil each yr. We also own some storage sheds that I manage and I could keep anything there that I needed too.

Id still have to use my boiler and propane I dont think I could rely on solar alone, but then again I am not 100% sure either way.

Cutting tree's for heat just seems not right to me, I couldnt agree that it is the lesser of two evils? Just doesnt sit well.

a fair ammount of changes in the electric code on the solar bit for the 2005 code (just adopted in michigan) lots planned for 2008

I know a lot of folks dislike televesion on here but the other night on discovery home channel they had a block of eco friendly type shows. one featured les stroud (survivorman) and his oddysey to take his family off the grid. he bought 150 acres in canada with an old horse barn, turned it into a liveable house as green as he could, outhouse, composting toilet, solar panels and the like. he didn't sugar coat it either, you get to see some of the pains involved with it.

I let the subscription run out but you can look at home power magazine, lots of articles and its full of ads and suppliers to get your gears turning

[Buffalo Head '75]

Did they show Stroud's original video, "off the grid"?

I have been dying to see that and have been to cheap to purchase the VCR tape that is available on his website.

[LIBRA]

I love survivor man!!! I didnt see that one, i will have to ck it out.

[Buffalo Head '75]

I love survivor man!!! I didnt see that one, i will have to ck it out.the bugs aren't as tasty as he makes them look. I already made that mistake on a backpacking trip. There is nothing like the sensation of a live grasshopper fighting for it's life only to smoosh into a crunchy goo as it slides down your throat.

definitely a once in a lifetime experience.

[LIBRA]

what about those huge slugs, or worm like thingy's eeew, I couldnt eat one. In some countries those are a delicacy, nasty.

[SummerOfLove]

about your wood burning boiler, I had never heard of such a thing. I must be under some rock or something. who knows. haha. Have you tried using Oil Heat. It's amazing. There's no stuffiness to it, simple maintenance, and you won't believe how evenly it spreads the heat around the house. Oil heat is just much more efficient now, compared to when I was a kid and my parents would always complain on how expensive it was. You should google some more info on it. I swear by it, it's cool (or should I say warm) hahaha ::lame joke:: :p

[LIBRA]

oil, simple maintence ??!!??!! thats funny!!! I work for a heating contractor and oil furnaces are dirty, nasty sooted up messes, you must have a good one,lol

I would never heat with fuel oil, its expensive imo and the equiptment is poorly rated. The most eff boiler or furnace you can get in oil is 80ish% I believe anyway.

I mean no offense though, just saying oil sucks :D

I guess it depends on where you live too, sometimes all thats available is fuel oil.

[Buffalo Head '75]

You always have the option of propane. the money you would save and the environmental benefits you would get over oil from propane would pay for itself in a few years.