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lexy
07-23-2008, 01:17 PM
I blogged this today... it's sort of a book report, or a synopsis of what I'm learning from C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity. I thought I'd share it here and see if any of you have insight. Thanks!

Every one of us has within us a basic moral law. We can recognize actions as 'right' or 'wrong'. When talking about the other laws of nature (gravity, time, biological laws) we know that these laws cannot be disobeyed, but moral law can. You can know that you should do something, but choose not to do it. So there's right, wrong, our impulses and desires that sway our decision, and the power and ability to decide, in and of itself.

This is not a biological law. It is not something that man created, but something that man finds himself subject to. It's like mathematics or music... It's just there. We can get the wrong answer to a math problem and hit a sour note on an instrument, just like we can stumble in moral law.

Throughout history, civilizations have been built up and then have crumbled, and in every case, some defiance of this moral law has spurred the decline. Greed, mostly. But greed starts as desire and ambition, good instincts and urges, until they are perverted by pride.

I think it's very interesting that bad can come of good, but good cannot come of bad. (I'm not talking about good coming out of bad situations, because surely that happens everyday, but being able to explain a good action from a bad one.) Take sexual perversion, for instance. Sex is good, humans were meant to have it and desire it, just like food in a way, though food is surely more vital. But if you eat too much, if your desire for food overcomes your desire for a healthy lifestyle, you get something bad. Also with sex, if you have an unhealthy appetite for it and sacrifice your health and well-being to get it, there's where your troubles start. You can explain the bad from the good, but not the other way around. You have to have an idea of what good sex is before you can know that bad sex is bad.

This gratifies our mindset that good is truly better and superior to bad. Not that we just happen to prefer goodness, but that it truly is the standard that everyone should strive for.

The problem is, we get it wrong daily. Personally, I know that I can't go half an hour without doing something I know is beneath this supreme moral law, and that doesn't take into account the glaring faults I have that I am blissfully ignorant of.

What can this teach us about the universe? Why do we have this collective mind to do good, no matter how badly we actually carry it out? It seems that if it were not something eternal and truly intent on residing in each human, that we would have snuffed this moral law out centuries, possibly even millennia ago.

Yet, it continues to live in our minds, in our souls.

I am a fan of science, progress, etc... but as of today, there's no scientific way to evaluate this collective concience. We have this thing that is trying to get us to behave in a certain way... It strives and has urges and purpose... And we cannot see it. It must be something outside this universe, outside the limiting three dimensions. Logic would even tell us that this mind has created us, since we each have been given a piece of this supernatural DNA. The only way it could make itself known to us is to put this into our heads, into our hearts, so that it is such a part of us that we deal with it always.

So this thing is what we all want, and what we also fear. We want everyone to be 'good' and even talk about how much better life/America/the World would be if some people did a better job of it. But do we really want this tough moral standard applied to our own lives? Don't we think we're all entitled to a little badness? In the face of pure goodness, we all would tremble. Not one would be able to stand. We have put ourselves at odds with this Power though we love it. Our situation seems hopeless when we view it this way.

When you look at religious history, there is a repeating theme in the religions of many different cultures. There is a God who comes to earth and is put to death to rise again, thus making an atonement, or restitution for the wrongs of His beloved creation. With His sacrifice, the people can boldly commune with Him without fear of His goodness and power.

Now, we have a historical figure who actually lived and claimed to be that God. Maybe God could have made it more 'simple' or obvious, but how much more perfect could you get than this plan... That the only thing one must do to be one with Goodness in the end is simply believe that He had enough love and interest in us to come here and experience life and all it's misery and joy, and open a door that cannot be shut so that we can reign with Him in the end.

Favorite quotes so far:

"The happiness which God designs for His higher creatures is the happiness of being freely, voluntarily united to Him and to each other in an ecstasy of love and delight compared with which the most rapturous love between a man and a woman on this earth is mere milk and water. And for that they must be free."

"If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end: If you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth - only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin with, and in the end, despair."

C.S. Lewis - Mere Christianity

PEACE FROG
07-24-2008, 07:59 AM
Naw. If you have a blank canvas human being, he would do something and see the effect. If the effect was the desired response he'd continue if not he would do something else. Not because he had made a moral decision about what he had done but whether or not he desires the outcome. So I say that the moral code you speak of is a civil code not at all the true nature of man.:)

NCW_Woodnymph
07-24-2008, 11:18 AM
I love "Mere Christianity". I really need to re-read it.

Froggy your hypothesis fails to take in the very human feeling of guilt. If our only concern is really the outcome that we seek then why, even when the outcome benefits us, do we as humans tend to feel guilty about something we know is wrong? Some people do learn to suppress their feelings of guilt or to rationalize it away, these are the ones who are able to commit crimes on a regular basis. But you will find in most children an innate sense of right and wrong. For example, most children know without being "taught" per say that stealing is wrong and often will confess to having stolen something very small not out of fear of being caught but out of a need to get rid of the guilty feeling inside.

:hippie:

PEACE FROG
07-25-2008, 06:50 AM
You could be right......uh I mean, That's what YOU think!
I really don't see much of that even in modern day, so-called developed man. I'm about to claim devils advocate that way I can freely make whatever statement I want. :D

NCW_Woodnymph
07-25-2008, 08:54 AM
Your so good at devils advocate. Why is that...:D

:hippie:

PEACE FROG
07-25-2008, 09:22 AM
I don't think that children know really anything but safety and comfort. All the rest is taught. I do think that they are able to empathize with someone when the effects of their actions bring about a response they can relate to as negative. ie I take your ice cream, you cry. I give it back and pat your shoulder and give a hug because that's what my mom does to fix it, so thats what I've learned to do in that situation. But initially I wanted your ice cream, so a took your ice cream. And that was pure.?????:)

PEACE FROG
07-25-2008, 09:25 AM
BTW Nymph I'm enjoying this and it's only discussion related to the first paragraph.:D

lexy
07-26-2008, 11:21 AM
I'm just glad someone wants to talk about it!

I'm not sure if I go with the cause & effect theory, only because I know that I do things even though I know it will cause a bad effect. Can anyone say "hangover?" hehehe

That's my prime example... but infants do work on conditioning... either that of themselves or that of the parent... hehehe...

interesting views, thank you so much for participating in the conversation. I don't have friends IRL that are willing to discuss religion/spirituality. I posted this blog and NO ONE commented.

:ufo: "This world is not our own, we are only passing through"

NCW_Woodnymph
07-27-2008, 06:12 PM
. But initially I wanted your ice cream, so a took your ice cream. And that was pure.?????:)

Now that I agree with completely. Human nature is pure and unadulterated selfishness, which by the way is completely biblical. I believe that is why we as humans make so little sense, because we know deep down what is right but, as hard as we may try not to be, we are selfish and we want what we want regardless of whether or not it is right or even good for us. There is a constant battle going on in our wee underused brains. :D

Adam Blanchard
08-21-2008, 12:26 PM
My biggest issue with any sort of a supposed "standard" moral law is that everyone has different morals. What seems morally wrong to one could be completely acceptable to another.

Morals are essentially the individuals view on what is right and wrong. Blame it on training from the parent or from the environment but either way it boils down to what the individual perceives.

forrest
08-24-2008, 02:23 AM
http://www.phoenixtraders.com/productImg/NS5562.jpg

forrest
09-02-2008, 12:59 AM
My biggest issue with any sort of a supposed "standard" moral law is that everyone has different morals. What seems morally wrong to one could be completely acceptable to another.

Morals are essentially the individuals view on what is right and wrong. Blame it on training from the parent or from the environment but either way it boils down to what the individual perceives.

Agreed!

“A person educated in mind and not in morals is a menace to society”

Juanita Kidd Stout
http://www.answers.com/topic/juanita-kidd-stout