Ca. prop.8 ban on Gay marraige

[PEACE FROG]

Is a state constitutional amendment to define marriage as "between one woman and one man"
Can I have some opinions on this measure?
A very heated debate where I live. Also if you are gay or are close to someone who is, how do you feel about this?

[LIBRA]

I have many gay friends who are in loving commited relationships, they are way better in relationships then I ever have been or could be. Some want to be married, some dont. But the one thing they all have in common is they want to be treated like everyone else. To be respected as a couple and individually. Have the same rights as a couple and individually.

I think a marriage between one man and one woman should be no business of the state. Same goes for one man and one man or a woman and a woman.

[CowboyHippy]

from apple computers
http://www.apple.com/startpage/


October 24, 2008
No on Prop 8
Apple is publicly opposing Proposition 8 and making a donation of $100,000 to the No on 8 campaign. Apple was among the first California companies to offer equal rights and benefits to our employees’ same-sex partners, and we strongly believe that a person’s fundamental rights — including the right to marry — should not be affected by their sexual orientation. Apple views this as a civil rights issue, rather than just a political issue, and is therefore speaking out publicly against Proposition 8.

[PEACE FROG]

Yes Cowboy, alot of companies and movie stars have given big bucks against this measure. It will probably pass. Similar legislation has in the past, but this is an amendment to the state constitution defining marriage "once and for all". The Ca. supreme court said it was unconstitutional to discriminate, so gay folks started getting married. The things being said by the proponents of this measure speak to disapproval of a lifestyle not to equitable treatment under the law. I am glad this will be over soon, as people find bigger and better ways to mistreat each other. I would so enjoy any intelligent opinions for or against as it would be mighty refreshing.

[Savon]

Intelligent post? let me see if i can help you.

First off im pro gay marriage. I have a friend who is gay and she is the nicest person i know. Also I would think that one house hold with two incomes would have less bills and make more money than two houses with a single income. Their by wouldn't they make more money. meaning that they would pay more in taxes to the state and gov.? It seems to me that every time you do ANYTHING that involves the state or the gov. that you pay some sort of fee. So it only seems logical (to me that is) that state and national gov. would WANT gay people to get married and go through that kabuki dance. In a world run on money and not personal well being that would seem a fair middle ground. Gays could gat married and the state and gov. would get their money.

Also on a side not I still dont think that niether the state not gov. should be desiding if people can or can not get married. No matter their sexual preferance.

Worse comes to worse and they do pass the bill. Im hoping that it wont stop the gay couples form getting married. I hope that they find the time to drive to Canada and get hitched. A marriage in another country is still recognized here in the US right?

Well i realise if beat my wardrumm to death on this now so ill stick the old girl back on the shelf and let someone else have a turn on their drumm with their opinions.

[NCW_Woodnymph]

Great starter topic Froggy!:D

I personally believe that homosexuality is immoral (which I really struggle with because I have a few gay friends that I really like and respect). That being said, I believe that homosexual couples should be afforded all the rights of heterosexual couples. What I would like to see is a bill that would call all unions "civil unions" for government purposes and leave marriage up to the church, that way everyones rights would be equal and debates about morality could be kept out of it.

[PEACE FROG]

Interesting kiddo. I know there are many folks that are legally married man and wife who have never been in a church. And not to mention the sanctity of marriages performed by skydiving Elvis impersonators in Vegas. Not religious, but recognized none the less. Divorce rates are over 50% in the church I've heard. It seems funny that this issue if not passed will "do us all in" as a culture and destroy the lives of our children. It's like one's house being on fire and they're yelling at someone for eating in the living room. I go back and forth over this issue. Lets talk Candice.

[forrest]

Outraged Parents of Children Featured in Latest Prop 8 TV Ad Demand that Commercial be Taken off the Air Immediately

Latest Campaign Gimmick Termed Exploitative and Shameless by Parents

SACRAMENTO – The parents of the two children most prominently featured in the latest multi-million dollar Prop 8 political spot today termed those ads “distasteful and exploitative” and demanded that the ads be taken off the air immediately.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
October 26, 2008

Contact: Julia Spiess
Phone: 916-601-8282

julia@perrycom.com (julia@perrycom.com)Outraged Parents of Children Featured in Latest Prop 8 TV Ad Demand that Commercial be Taken off the Air Immediately

Latest Campaign Gimmick Termed Exploitative and Shameless by Parents
SACRAMENTO – The parents of the two children most prominently featured in the latest multi-million dollar Prop 8 political spot today termed those ads “distasteful and exploitative” and demanded that the ads be taken off the air immediately. Both sets of parents – Laura Hodder and Matt Alexander and Jen Press and James Moore, sent two hand-delivered letters this morning. The first letter is to the Prop 8 Campaign demanding the ad be removed from its television and its Web site where it is being used as a fund raising tool. The second letter to the San Francisco Chronicle asks them to intervene on their behalf. The Prop 8 campaign manipulated video that the Chronicle has posted on its Web site.
In their letter to the Prop 8 campaign, the parents wrote: “We are absolutely outraged that you have chosen, without permission, to shamelessly hijack the images of our innocent children to promote a cause that we in no way, shape or form support. It is even more maddening that you have willfully and calculatingly edited the images of our children, with menacing music in the background, in a way that is completely contrary to their nature and harmful to them.”
The footage manipulated by the Yes campaign, without authorization from either the parents or the Chronicle, was originally captured on Oct. 10 when the children took a field trip with their classmates and several parents to share the moment of their teacher’s wedding to her longtime partner. All parents were notified well in advance of the trip which was organized by some parents, and, in fact, two families chose to have their children not participate under California’s broad opt out law.
“I’m a school principal so I know something about education and parents’ rights,” said Matt Alexander whose son, Ben, is featured in the ad. “And the opt out law is something we readily apply all the time. So, let me join every other educator in the state and ask Prop 8 to also stop lying about the opt out law.”
“This field trip was about sharing a special moment with a teacher these kids love,” said Jen Press whose daughter, Lucy, is prominently featured in the political ad. “To turn around and distort images of our children is outrageous. We’re opposed to Prop 8, but irrespective of our position, it’s wrong to use any image of children without their parents’ permission. And we think every parent in California would agree with us.”
In the letter to the San Francisco Chronicle, the parents wrote, in part:
“Our children are being exploited and used as pawns to further a political cause…We ask that you intervene immediately on our behalf and issue a cease and desist letter to the Yes on 8 campaign. If the campaign does not remove the ad, we ask that you pursue legal action against them.”
Added Jen Press: “Prop 8 claims to be about families, but we’re here to say you can’t be for families by attacking our families. You can’t be for families and take these children’s innocent images and flash them not only on television statewide, but on your fund raising page. This must stop right now.”
http://www.noonprop8.com/downloads/Letterv2.pdfClick here to read the letter to the San Francisco Chronicle.(pdf)

No On 8, Don't Eliminate Marriage For Anyone (http://www.noonprop8.com/headlines/outraged-parents-demand-that-commercial-be-taken-off-the-air-immediately/)

[unclejoe]

Woodnymph, Excellent Idea! :33:
this would satisfy any reasonable individual, however, many on the Pro 8 side are very narrowminded.

the Pro 8 organization has broken the law.
use of copyrighted material without permission aka 'pirating'
and using the minors' images without the parents permission.
it's what child pornographers do.
i hope there is a lawyer out there who will take on this case, pro bono,
and nail their pasty hypocritical a$$@$ !

Propostioin 8 is a blatant attempt to base legal decisions on religious preferences.
it attempts to legalize discrimination against a minority.
this is why the state supreme court ruled it unconstituitional.
and if 8 passes, it will be shot down by the state supreme court as it was previously.
the only appeal is to The Supreme Court of the United States of America.
and they, too, will rule it unconstitutional to discriminate against a minority.

[LIBRA]

If I ever get married it would have nothing to do with a church, or god it would have every thing to do with the love I feel for the other person. I dont understand how it is immoral to love someone. The gay couples I am very close with were born this way, they knew from very young ages that they were different. Seems like torture enough to live your life that way as a child let alone as an adult, being treated that way by other adults.

I think they would all be very happy with civil unions, and thats a great idea. But its unfortunate that the government and the church keep dangeling that right in there faces. Seems like such a waste of money, all this batteling, courts, lawyers, what are "they" so scared of???

If gays marry, polar ice caps will melt, we will go to war and kill thousands of innocent people, the economy will fall flat on its ass, thousands and thousands of people will loose there homes, become homeless, loose there jobs.

We have so much more to worry about then stopping people who love one another. To me THAT is immoral.

[PEACE FROG]

Excellent post Denise! Hypothetically what would happen if gay people were married? How would we be affected? Hmmm.....

[Graehstone]

The folks that are bothered by what other folks do behind closed doors are the ones that scare the living crap out of me.
It's none of my business what anyone does to/with each other as long as there is mutual consent and nobody gets hurt or killed.
There's a state (I think either Tennessee or Oklahoma) where you can go to jail for owning a vibrator, and here in California (even consensual/married) oral sex can land you in jail and/or fined as it is against the law.
Things are getting uglier and uglier out there and I am disliking humanity more and more each day.
You can't legislate love ... plain and simple.
:hippie:

[Savon]

"If gays marry, polar ice caps will melt, we will go to war and kill thousands of innocent people, the economy will fall flat on its ass, thousands and thousands of people will loose there homes, become homeless, loose there jobs."

TO late!

[Hippie Staff]

Voting no on prop 8 is agreeing with the basic principle that governments should not legislate how people govern their private lives. Essentially: if you don’t believe in marrying someone of the same sex, then don’t,
If you don’t believe in abortion then don’t have one. Some factions of our country insist on taking away basic human rights for others simply because they would not choose to do something.

[LIBRA]

"If gays marry, polar ice caps will melt, we will go to war and kill thousands of innocent people, the economy will fall flat on its ass, thousands and thousands of people will loose there homes, become homeless, loose there jobs."

TO late!


I was being sarcastic sweety. I dont know what people are so scared of, thats what I was trying to relay.

[LIBRA]

Excellent post Denise! Hypothetically what would happen if gay people were married? How would we be affected? Hmmm.....

Thanks.

And Im betting it would cosmically reverse the effects of global warming. OR god would strike down upon is with great vengance and furious anger, because gays marrying is being portrayed as the most vile thing we humans have done thus far. People protest this more then the war, where thousands of people DIE. Havent seen anyone die from a lesbian couple tyeing the knot.

I personally wouldnt be affected at all besides having to be in one more wedding, hopefully with way cooler bridesmaid dresses :D

[forrest]

Voting no on prop 8 is agreeing with the basic principle that governments should not legislate how people govern their private lives. Essentially: if you don’t believe in marrying someone of the same sex, then don’t,
If you don’t believe in abortion then don’t have one. Some factions of our country insist on taking away basic human rights for others simply because they would not choose to do something.

You forgot about socialism, stop abortion and stop any kind of help, and watch them starve in the streets and kill each other, because it will raise taxes, the republicans need war fodder!

We need to protect the Iraqi children from the harm they face!



How I feel in reality is...It's all a cluster-fuck, put people in prison so they will have sex aka but fuck etc... what does it accomplish in reality of stopping homosexuality?

http://www.oilwars.com/deadiraq.jpg

http://www.oilwars.com/http://escapedmentalpatient.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/dead-iraqi-child.jpg

http://badattitudes.com/MT/dead-iraqi.jpg

"WHAT HAVE "WE BECOME"?

[LIBRA]

your right, what have we become. horrifying.

[Adam Blanchard]

people need to get over the who should gay people be allowed to marry or not. Honestly I don't see the big deal with marriage in the first place. The actual event really doesn't mean anything anymore other than a way to blow lots of cash for a day where people cry and the families get drunk. Then after a couple of fights they get a divorce and go about their separate ways with one gaining much more than they went into the relationships with. I say you want to get married then more power to you, I don't care if your gay or straight or trying to marry a horse. You want to waste the money then go for it. :bat::bat:

[Taurus]

Once you find someone you love what difference does it make if they're the same sex? Used to be that marriage between people of different religions was frowned upon. Then it was marriage between the races. Now it's same sex partners. As long as two people are happy and aren't hurting anyone, or infringing on others rights who's business is it? No ones!

I've known many gay people over the years. They were all good people / kind souls. Which, to me, is much more important.

[NCW_Woodnymph]

people need to get over the who should gay people be allowed to marry or not. Honestly I don't see the big deal with marriage in the first place. The actual event really doesn't mean anything anymore other than a way to blow lots of cash for a day where people cry and the families get drunk. Then after a couple of fights they get a divorce and go about their separate ways with one gaining much more than they went into the relationships with. I say you want to get married then more power to you, I don't care if your gay or straight or trying to marry a horse. You want to waste the money then go for it. :bat::bat:

This is exactly my point. (Not that this is directed toward you Adam) I know some gay couples who are far more committed to each other than a lot of legally married hetero couples I also know. I take marriage very seriously. I vowed forever, for better or worse and I meant every word. I get so mad at people who call them selves Christians but are too selfish to put in the effort required to make a relationship work. I understand that some times there are extenuating circumstances but I wish that those who aren't willing to make and keep a commitment could have the legal rights without sullying the idea of marriage.

I'll spare you all my rant on how our lack of willingness to commit and keep our commitments is one of the fundamental problems with our society.:D

[PEACE FROG]

So we basically are saying if you don't want gay marriage don't get one. Nice Meg. I also wholeheartedly agree with the Nymph, lets change all marriages to civil unions then you could get any type you want as per your faith.:)

Forrest, amazing post, thought provoking and a heart felt truth. Perhaps all this hoopla is designed as a distraction as I have heard no one talking war or climate change. Playing the homo/ abortion card certainly energizes their voter base. Outrageous! Babies are dying and we are more worried about how much it costs to fill Gov. Avon lady's closet......I'm ashamed!

[forrest]

So we basically are saying if you don't want gay marriage don't get one. Nice Meg. I also wholeheartedly agree with the Nymph, lets change all marriages to civil unions then you could get any type you want as per your faith.:)

Forrest, amazing post, thought provoking and a heart felt truth. Perhaps all this hoopla is designed as a distraction as I have heard no one talking war or climate change. Playing the homo/ abortion card certainly energizes their voter base. Outrageous! Babies are dying and we are more worried about how much it costs to fill Gov. Avon lady's closet......I'm ashamed!

Please don't size me, over anyone I am equal to all!

Way back Libra and others complained that I just copied and pasted etc... my reply was what does my opinion really matter, opinions are like ass wholes we all have one, common ground set, we must take on all that is before us and get rid of the negative! And I am not always positive, it disgusts me! Enough about me and what i think, [SIZE="7"]think for yourself we all have the capability!



A happy man is too satisfied with the present to dwell too much on the future.---Albert Einstein

[LIBRA]

I love reading your opinions seems like we get to know your more that way and I love that too, and honestly I learned alot from some of the copy and pasted stuff :D

[NCW_Woodnymph]

Forrest I've really been enjoying hearing you speak as you. It's so nice to meet you! :D

[Hippie Staff]

LOL Frog - no, what I mean is that a gay marriage does not affect my non-gay marriage. I don't care what someone else does in their bedroom, just like they should not care what I do. For those who do not approve, it just does not affect them.

If my neighbors are gay and just got married, how does it affect me? It doesn't. Not in the least.

[PEACE FROG]

Actually Forrest I'll size your name any way I please. I was touched by your post, seeing that kind of suffering breaks my heart. Then the question, "is this what we've become?" Great post. There was some other incoherent babbling in your post, but still, I was captivated by those images.
Peace!:D

[PEACE FROG]

LOL Frog - no, what I mean is that a gay marriage does not affect my non-gay marriage. I don't care what someone else does in their bedroom, just like they should not care what I do. For those who do not approve, it just does not affect them.

If my neighbors are gay and just got married, how does it affect me? It doesn't. Not in the least.
I got you. I was summing it up. ;)

[forrest]

Actually Forrest I'll size your name any way I please. I was touched by your post, seeing that kind of suffering breaks my heart. Then the question, "is this what we've become?" Great post. There was some other incoherent babbling in your post, but still, I was captivated by those images.
Peace!:D

The incoherent babbling was at cause having worked an 11 hour shift and driving* an hour and a half back home etc... to I don't give a fuck!

* which means an hour and a half to get there

I guess that can be considered a bad attitude?

Maybe I'd love too touch you?????????????:D

[forrest]

This is exactly my point. (Not that this is directed toward you Adam) I know some gay couples who are far more committed to each other than a lot of legally married hetero couples I also know. I take marriage very seriously. I vowed forever, for better or worse and I meant every word. I get so mad at people who call them selves Christians but are too selfish to put in the effort required to make a relationship work. I understand that some times there are extenuating circumstances but I wish that those who aren't willing to make and keep a commitment could have the legal rights without sullying the idea of marriage.

I'll spare you all my rant on how our lack of willingness to commit and keep our commitments is one of the fundamental problems with our society.:D

Divorce Statistics, Marriage Statistics: Divorce Rates in America, Marriage (http://www.divorcemag.com/statistics/statsUS.shtml)

[PEACE FROG]

The incoherent babbling was at cause having worked an 11 hour shift and driving* an hour and a half back home etc... to I don't give a fuck!

* which means an hour and a half to get there

I guess that can be considered a bad attitude?

Maybe I'd love too touch you?????????????:D
I don't really understand what you're saying, again, except the hard working part. Did you get the job you wanted? I hope so. Ya dude, kuddos on busting your ass to support your family. My hat is off to you. Now, just except what I say whether you desire a compliment or not. Sometimes, my friend, it is just the music of conversation. Peace Bro. :hippie:

[LIBRA]

So hot, want to touch the hiney.

Billy Madison



:eek:

[sleung]

marriage will only mean a increased rise in gay divorce

[PEACE FROG]

marriage will only mean a increased rise in gay divorce
Yes it's the American way....:D
Sleung is gay marriage legal in Canada?

[LIBRA]

Way to go Keith Oblermann!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVUecPhQPqY

[Adam Blanchard]

and this is why he is my hero. :D :bat::bat: