God says NO!

[forrest]

WASILLA, Alaska (AP) — Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin returned to where her political career began to cast her vote at the snow-dusted, two-story city hall where she once presided as a small-town mayor. "Forever," she said, "I'm going to be Sarah from Alaska."

Palin, accompanied by her husband Todd, voted just after 7 a.m. Tuesday, pushing aside a red, white and blue curtain on a voting booth and handing her white paper ballot to a clerk.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h21ZbzgPbTVRftcJPT5vkHkonY5QD948C1NG0


Well at least she got 2 votes! :o

[Adam Blanchard]

Nah, I bet her husband voted for Obama. ;)

[Shydog]

Politics are now religion?

[Crochety Carpenter]

If your religion doesn't affect your politics it isn't much of a religion. That's why chickens don't discuss either... human chickens that is... the others ...well... they can't talk. :o :D

[Adam Blanchard]

well I'm sure the other chickens can talk, just not in a language discernable to humans.. then again maybe not... who knows

[Crochety Carpenter]

Ever owned a chicken? Duuumb birds!

[Adam Blanchard]

I've owned alot of chickens... usually cut up in my freezer. I'm a city boy, we don't have chickens there, unless you count the human chickens.. of those there is an abundance.

[Shydog]

If your religion doesn't affect your politics it isn't much of a religion. That's why chickens don't discuss either... human chickens that is... the others ...well... they can't talk. :o :D It has been said that intellectuals are impossible to get under controll becuase they have a habit of analizing everything, they will run around like a bunch of chickens. This is a political thread in the section of religion. I suppose Adolf Hitlers' manipulation of the church in order to get everone to go along with his plan was a good thing in your opinion.

[Adam Blanchard]

My religion has to do with me personaly and not really anyone else where as my politics deal with the entire nation and not just me, thus for me I keep politics and religion seperate.

Everyone agrees that the nation needs change, I'm perfectly fufilled with my religion and it does not need to change. ;):bat:

[Crochety Carpenter]

I suppose Adolf Hitlers' manipulation of the church in order to get everone to go along with his plan was a good thing in your opinion.

I was speaking in a personal veign. Actually ones religion is informed by ones philosophy, or world view. How you see the world i.e. randomly formed by chance occurances or intelligently created with intent and purpose will inevetably influence your politics.

Anyone who gives themselves over to being dictated to by an organization is a fool. Just watched a documentary on survivors of Jones Town. Remember the "Reverend" Jones?

[PEACE FROG]

Tom how about politics from the pulpit? Do you think a pastor should try to influence the vote of his congregation? They have always got petitions in the foyer and were handing out signs and stuff for McCain/ Palin and on prop 8 up until last week.
Yesterday my wife said that Pastor said that Obama wasn't voted in by the Christians, it was the blacks and the Mexicans that voted him in. I just smiled. I know that you remember Archie Bunker.

[Crochety Carpenter]

Archie, my hero!...NOT
Politics from the pulpit falls under my earlier statement about people giving themselves over to control of another. Pastors have a right to say what they wish, even Jeramia Wright, people are responsible for what they do with it. It is apropriate for a pastor to point out when a party or candidate supports a clear moral wrong, such as abortion or assisted suicide or homosexuality (at least from a biblical paradigm) It is another thing when it involves more ambiguous issues.
The afore mentioned manipulation of churches to support Hitlers goals is an instance of abuse as is the southern democrat's use of biblical distortions to support slavery and discrimination in the past.

[LIBRA]

I dont understand church I guess. Why go? Cant you worship at home? Does it make you less christian, less in gods eyes if you dont attend?
I dont think I could bow my head and pray with people who are like that, unwilling to see or learn. Seems like that goes against what jesus was even about.

Off subject and I dont mean to interupt, its just something Ive never understood about organized religion.

[Adam Blanchard]

I always liked Archie... he was funny... at least his script writers were.

Libra, have you ever seen the movie Stigmata? In it there is a passage that was supposedly removed from the bible or a part of the unreleased passages that the vatican has that says something to the order of "look not for me in buildings of stone for I am not there, I am in the sky, the trees, the earth and within you". I always liked that because truly to enjoy the beauty and gifts of God one should look no further than nature for that is the bounty of his greatness. If you believe in that sort of thing. :bat::bat:

[PEACE FROG]

Archie, my hero!...NOT
Politics from the pulpit falls under my earlier statement about people giving themselves over to control of another. Pastors have a right to say what they wish, even Jeramia Wright, people are responsible for what they do with it. It is apropriate for a pastor to point out when a party or candidate supports a clear moral wrong, such as abortion or assisted suicide or homosexuality (at least from a biblical paradigm) It is another thing when it involves more ambiguous issues.
The afore mentioned manipulation of churches to support Hitlers goals is an instance of abuse as is the southern democrat's use of biblical distortions to support slavery and discrimination in the past.
But in a country who's government is represent of all people no matter their race, creed or color. Why should just one of the many faiths or belief systems in this country speak for the others and what of the non- believers? Most common church goers can't even tell you why they feel the way they do, just that they were told that it was "in the bible".
And when put into context Jeremiah Wright's statements are spot on, no need to bring that up.
Hitlers goals is an instance of abuse as is the southern democrat's use of biblical distortions to support slavery and discrimination in the past.
Is'nt it a trip how roles have reversed? The Reupublican's as I understand used to even be be conservationists!

[LIBRA]

Libra, have you ever seen the movie Stigmata? In it there is a passage that was supposedly removed from the bible or a part of the unreleased passages that the vatican has that says something to the order of "look not for me in buildings of stone for I am not there, I am in the sky, the trees, the earth and within you". I always liked that because truly to enjoy the beauty and gifts of God one should look no further than nature for that is the bounty of his greatness. If you believe in that sort of thing. :bat::bat:

Love that!

[NCW_Woodnymph]

I dont understand church I guess. Why go? Cant you worship at home? Does it make you less christian, less in gods eyes if you dont attend?
I dont think I could bow my head and pray with people who are like that, unwilling to see or learn. Seems like that goes against what jesus was even about.

Off subject and I dont mean to interupt, its just something Ive never understood about organized religion.

In the beginning days of Christianity there were no churches, just groups of believers who met together to learn and fellowship. That is the purpose of church it can be big or small but it is important that it is a give and take thing not a one way flow of ideas. To be honest there are times I am more inspired to study my bible by you guys than by church.:D There are also times though that I need to discuss issues with those who are wiser than I and that is were my church and my pastor come in.

[Adam Blanchard]

Back when I was just getting out of the whole southern baptist thing and well versed n the bible I used to love getting into discussions with the priests in south baltimore. My friend Dissa's dad is a pastor of a church there on fort ave. and I loved making him angry with my knowledge of the bible. But only once did I actually manage to get him to cuss at me, he was trying to convince me that being a goth implied that I was a worshiper of satan and tried using bible passages to convert me and I in turn rebutted with contradictory verses and ideas from the bible. The main thing that got him going is that I told him that churches were useless and just another way to extort money from hard working people who go by the church rule of giving 15% in offerings, that really got him going so I just asked him where god was more present, in his creations on this planet or the man made creations like the building he calls a church. I wasn't allowed to hang out with his daughter for 3 months after that one. I miss being young and cocky. :bat::bat:

[PEACE FROG]

Back when I was just getting out of the whole southern baptist thing and well versed n the bible I used to love getting into discussions with the priests in south baltimore. My friend Dissa's dad is a pastor of a church there on fort ave. and I loved making him angry with my knowledge of the bible. But only once did I actually manage to get him to cuss at me, he was trying to convince me that being a goth implied that I was a worshiper of satan and tried using bible passages to convert me and I in turn rebutted with contradictory verses and ideas from the bible. The main thing that got him going is that I told him that churches were useless and just another way to extort money from hard working people who go by the church rule of giving 15% in offerings, that really got him going so I just asked him where god was more present, in his creations on this planet or the man made creations like the building he calls a church. I wasn't allowed to hang out with his daughter for 3 months after that one. I miss being young and cocky. :bat::bat:
You were probably then told that God's creations merely bear his fingerprint but his people are indwelt with his Holy spirit.... I know the speak;)

[Crochety Carpenter]

Adam, a goth baptist! What a kick! LOL

As to why go to church, I enjoy it. I like seeing folks that I don't get to see all week. I like teaching my sunday school class, more of a discussion group really. I like seeing where I can help when I can. I really feel sorry for people who just go and sit or think they get points toward heaven for attendence. And like the Nymph said, you folks help me see God in wonderfull ways.

Tom

[forrest]

Tom how about politics from the pulpit? Do you think a pastor should try to influence the vote of his congregation? They have always got petitions in the foyer and were handing out signs and stuff for McCain/ Palin and on prop 8 up until last week.
Yesterday my wife said that Pastor said that Obama wasn't voted in by the Christians, it was the blacks and the Mexicans that voted him in. I just smiled. I know that you remember Archie Bunker.

YouTube - McCain Supporters in PA: "Bomb Obama" "Never vote for black" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL20TdHjX2s)

[Crochety Carpenter]

Mobs, masses, and the majority can always be counted on to be idiots. That is why I prefer to deal with individuals.

[PEACE FROG]

Scary!!! So we can see that most of these McCain supporters were ignorant biggots. BTW the "Fresh Prince" style rap at the end of this clip is a Pete Seeger ditty.

[Crochety Carpenter]

A small, vocal enclave does not constitute "most". Even several of them don't.

[LIBRA]

All the republicans in my town are pissed and thats putting it lightly. They have no respect what so ever for President Obama, mostly because the color of his skin is not like theres. Nothing to do with his political agenda.

[Crochety Carpenter]

All the republicans in my town are pissed and thats putting it lightly. They have no respect what so ever for President Obama, mostly because the color of his skin is not like theres. Nothing to do with his political agenda.

I find that irritating. People who can't move on with the process are idiots! (Seems to be my word for the day. lol) Though I do not share your entheusiasm for the fact , he IS our president and, though I may critisize his pollicies, I will give him the respect due his office. Besides, family is the most important thing in life to me and you can see by the way he responds to his he's got that right.:heff2:

[LIBRA]

Im glad to hear that. I was starting to think you were one of those idiots :D

[Crochety Carpenter]

Only on my bad days. then I am emmediatly repentant and say 6 mother earths... or is that hail marys.:D

[PEACE FROG]

A small, vocal enclave does not constitute "most". Even several of them don't.When you say "most of these" "these" referring to the enclave, I made an accurate statement. So please keep both feet on the ground Billy Jack.

[Crochety Carpenter]

Ah! Details, details. You are abundantly correct. :o I abjectly appologise and slink back to my corner where I can lurk ready to pounce. :smilie_lo

[Shydog]

Back when I was just getting out of the whole southern baptist thing and well versed n the bible I used to love getting into discussions with the priests in south baltimore. My friend Dissa's dad is a pastor of a church there on fort ave. and I loved making him angry with my knowledge of the bible. But only once did I actually manage to get him to cuss at me, he was trying to convince me that being a goth implied that I was a worshiper of satan and tried using bible passages to convert me and I in turn rebutted with contradictory verses and ideas from the bible. The main thing that got him going is that I told him that churches were useless and just another way to extort money from hard working people who go by the church rule of giving 15% in offerings, that really got him going so I just asked him where god was more present, in his creations on this planet or the man made creations like the building he calls a church. I wasn't allowed to hang out with his daughter for 3 months after that one. I miss being young and cocky. :bat::bat: Hey man thats cool. You were doing the preachers daughter? :) Sounds like fun.

[Crochety Carpenter]

Whoa Adam, you need to stay away from that church. I've never heard more than 10%. Werer you talking to Swaggert, or Hinn, or Kopland?

[Adam Blanchard]

lol well, it's been awhile since I've been to church... I think I was around 14 when I stopped going completely and don't remember the exact amount your supposed to give. :p

And Shy, I never said I was doing her, she and I were good friends... we made out a few times but nothing more than that. lol

[Shydog]

Close enough.:)

[forrest]

:music9: :musik010: :huepfen02

YouTube - Dusty Springfield - Son of a preacher man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJM5K51peVw)

[Crochety Carpenter]

Didn't I say Christians have the best sex?

[Adam Blanchard]

I'm going to refrain from the pervy comment. It could get me in trouble since I'm taken.

[Shydog]

Hang in there, it all comes back to you.

[LIBRA]

Didn't I say Christians have the best sex?


Hmmm maybe I need some religion in my life. LOL just kidding I HAD too :D

[Crochety Carpenter]

;)Te he te he:D

[Adam Blanchard]

I'm not christian but I still have religion in my love life... every time it sounds like a bunch of praying.... oh god this, oh god that, I think I'm starting to get a complex.

[Shydog]

I've heard tell that Cristians have a way of stimulating female orgasm that is ongoing until the woman sees God. :)

[Crochety Carpenter]

And the downwqrd spiral continues. Oh no! where's that comment going to lead?:ufo:

[Adam Blanchard]

no... there were only 2 downward spirals.. the downward spiral and further down the spiral... both halo cd's by Nine Inch Nails. :p

[Shydog]

And the downwqrd spiral continues. Oh no! where's that comment going to lead?:ufo:
Just looking for some guidance.

[LIBRA]

And the downwqrd spiral continues. Oh no! where's that comment going to lead?:ufo:

Hey you started it :p

[Shydog]

I've heard tell that Cristians have a way of stimulating female orgasm that is ongoing until the woman sees God. :)Somewhere along the line ongoing female orgasms are Creation.

I suppose.

[Crochety Carpenter]

And this thread started with such lofty thoughts....

[Adam Blanchard]

and went down, down, down in a ring of fire.... :D

[unclejoe]

"...and on the Sixth Day,
God surveyed all that had been accomplished
and thought I need a good laugh.

So, SHE created Man..."

:p

[Savon]

HAHAHA thats a good one:p

[forrest]

And this thread started with such lofty thoughts....

Don't fuck around Crochety Carpenter! I know, I'm Tiresias (http://www.pantheon.org/articles/t/tiresias.html)!

[forrest]

Mobs, masses, and the majority can always be counted on to be idiots. That is why I prefer to deal with individuals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gHKNwpny9o


The night is black, without a moon.
The air is thick and still.
The vigilantes gather on
The lonely torchlit hill.

Features distorted in the flickering light,
Faces are twisted and grotesque.
Silent and stern in the sweltering night,
The mob moves like demons possesed.
Quiet in conscience, calm in their right,
Confident their ways are best.

The righteous rise
With burning eyes
Of hatred and ill-will.
Madmen fed on fear and lies
To beat and burn and kill.

They say there are strangers who threaten us,
Our immigrants and infidels.
They say there is strangeness to danger us
In our theatres and bookstore shelves,
That those who know whats best for us
Must rise and save us from ourselves.

Quick to judge,
Quick to anger,
Slow to understand
Ignorance and prejudice
And fear walk hand in hand.

[Crochety Carpenter]

Well said. :)
Such are the ignorant who need a crowd to spur thier hate inside,
who need to feel that they belong so in the masses hide.
A man alone can see the truth that all men stand alone,
and each man must within himself stand strong or stay at home.
When I see you and you see me and no one stands between,
then we can know what each one brings and friendship can be seen. :D

[PEACE FROG]

Tom, Ive noticed when peeling folks away from the angry mob, alot of folks were just providing harmony vocals not really the song they would otherwise be singing solo. They just figure they belong to "that" side so.......

[Crochety Carpenter]

Peace,
That's an interesting and insightfull way to put it. It's easy to be loud when you are the annonomous background, but do they really know the melody?

[PEACE FROG]

I noticed that during the last election, folks I talked to (conservative town) were at a loss to explain why they felt the way they did. Or were quickly turned around by reasoning with them, however I'm sure they voted their original position anyways. It's almost like they called out expecting an echo to return, when it didn't, they were lost.......

[Crochety Carpenter]

I noticed that during the last election, folks I talked to (conservative town) were at a loss to explain why they felt the way they did. Or were quickly turned around by reasoning with them, however I'm sure they voted their original position anyways. It's almost like they called out expecting an echo to return, when it didn't, they were lost.......

Most people have an innate desire to belong and will parrot the majority inthe crowd they hang out in. Independant thought is beyond them so they are easily swayed. Then there's Forrest. :D