Rolllin'

[*RaiN*]

What are your thoughts on rollin on eX? I don't get why alot of people get really sketched out by the idea of doing it. . . hm well I have and I thought it was amazing. Its not the kind of thing I would go, or went out of my way to try but the way I see it, if you have an opportunity to try something, why now? but maybe I'm missing something. . .

Peaccce
~*Rain*~

[toman]

The main problem I have with any of those kind of drugs is that it's a man made chemical, produced and sold to you through who knows how long a chain of people, all out to make money off you with no regard for your own safety or well being. Personally I think ingesting anything like that is just not a smart thing to do. If you want to do a bunch of research, go out in your garage and cook up some stuff and shoot yourself up with it to see what happens, more power to you. Still stupid, but at least you have the option of knowing what's going into your body.


The other problem I have with chemical drugs and hard drugs in general for the most part is the effect they have on people around you and society as a whole. The majority of people doing these drugs are young people who either have no insurance or are covered under that of their parents. When you go out and fuck yourself up on drugs and end up going to the hospital for tens of thousands of dollars of tests and treatments, who do you think pays for that? I'll tell you: I do. I don't feel I should have to pay for the fact that young people and their respective families can't manipulate their lives in such a way as to not need chemical substances to make life tolerable. While a lot of people probably think this is a harsh viewpoint or that it makes me sound 'old' or 'conservative', it is the fact of the matter. Like I said in another thread today; there are lots of natural, reasonably safe substances you can entertain yourself with and risk little harm to anyone other than some of your own braincells.

[delta9]

There is very little wrong with MDMA (erowid:mdma (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/)). MDMA is not the problem; the illicit street market is the problem. If you are going to do ecstasy, become familiar with ecstasydata.org (http://www.ecstasydata.org/) and pillreports.com (http://www.pillreports.com/). The problem stems from, like toman said, many people are in this business to make money and many of them don't give a damn about you.

To quote erowid:
CAUTION : Ecstasy tablets are notoriously impure, often containing chemicals other than MDMA.
Some of these chemicals have potentially dangerous effects separately or in combination with the effects of MDMA.

What you want is a pill like this walking man (http://www.ecstasydata.org/viewtablet.php?ID=1400) which contains only MDMA. MDMA is, to all up-to-date and respected research, a pretty safe chemical.

Unfortunately, in this illicit drug market, you can't be assured you are getting a pill with only MDMA in it. Unless you knew the person that made the pill, you cannot be sure (and even then, do you trust this person?) until it is tested - and you can't legally walk into a testing facility with illegal contraband.

Ecstasy is cut with many many things to raise profits... MDA, MDE, PseudoEphedrine, Ephedrine, Caffeine, DXM - but never heroin (erowid debunks) (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_info5.shtml). It is also occaisonally cut with things linked to various dangers, like PMA. None of these things are MDMA and so, none of these things are "good". Several of these things are dangerous. Not every pill sold as ecstasy will even *have* esctasy in it. This green triangle (http://www.ecstasydata.org/viewtablet.php?ID=1395) contained one unidentified substance. This walking man (http://www.ecstasydata.org/viewtablet.php?ID=1393) of similar color and appearance as the first MDMA only link I posted above contains only MDA and MDE - no MDMA in it and it looks almost *exactly* the same as the one with *only* MDMA in it. This "one" (http://www.ecstasydata.org/viewtablet.php?ID=1386) contains only MDA.

MDMA is a great drug, it really is, but until it is legal and regulated, or until I find someone who I trust with full confidence to produce it for me, I will not be engaging in much, if any, ecstasy use. I want to do MDMA - *not* a bunch of other crap and I can't even be sure of *what* it is.

Eating beans from a source you are unsure of is risky (and thus, dangerous).

Oh, but I wish we could all get good beans all the time. MDMA really is a beautiful substance.

[delta9]

The other problem I have with chemical drugs and hard drugs in general for the most part is the effect they have on people around you and society as a whole.
Let's get one thing straight (and I myself was where you are not too long ago); every drug is a chemical. You are talking about synthetic drugs.

But is synthetic water "bad" because it was produced by reaction in a lab and not taken from the earth? Is synthesized DMT any less DMT than that extracted from mimosa (thus, natural DMT)? The real question here isn't about the substance, it is about the (ab)user.

Case in point; I used to say I hated methamphetamine. But lets get real here. I don't hate methamphetamine, I hate tweakers. Methamphetamine is just a chemical, and it even has its (apparent) uses. If I am asking people to grant that marijauna helps some people, then I can do the same and grant that (meth)amphetamines (ritalin, adderall, concerta, et al) indeed help some people. It's the abusers that I fucking hate. Tweakers (meth abusers) are nasty, evil, vile, conceitous (is that a word?) people. Junkies (opiate abusers) are bad, too, though I have less personal experience with them. I'll take an E-Tard (ecstasy abuser) any day - they can be reformed and listen to reason ;) .

Like I said in another thread today; there are lots of natural, reasonably safe substances you can entertain yourself with and risk little harm to anyone other than some of your own braincells.
Only because this is a thread about ecstasy; I will point out that MDMA does not kill or damage brain cells anymore than THC or LSD do. Again, MDMA is a relatively safe drug (like THC or LSD or Psilocybin) - the very common adulterants are *not* safe, and thus the drug "ecstasy" is not at all safe.

[tooter_mcgee]

i agree immensley... there are few things you can ingest to obtain a feeling or sensation without a chemical, im not saying its not possible by any means, but the truth of the matter is chemicals can be man-made or exist naturally, they're still chemicals nonetheless, and few are good for you when taken in excess, man-made or not.

[toman]

Ok, I used the wrong name. I guess I've just never seen anything good come from kids taking drugs made in somebody's basement lab, and I don't really understand why people want to do it. Maybe it's my problem.

[waking_dreams]

nah...i think you articulated your opinion well, but i think delta and tooter did also. you peeps just differ in opinion is all :)

[delta9]

Ok, I used the wrong name. I guess I've just never seen anything good come from kids taking drugs made in somebody's basement lab, and I don't really understand why people want to do it. Maybe it's my problem.
Oh I agree with you! Basement labs, especially run by kids that don't know what they are doing, are vile, and most importantly, they are stupid...

But not all basement labs are bad, nor or all of these lab technitions uneducated people... There are a very few, but they exist, groups of people who create "drugs" in basement labs for the purpose of allowing people to experience these drugs in as clean and safe a manner as possible. These are the Good Guys (TM). Unfortunately, the Bad Guys (TM) far out number the good guys :(

[peach_blossom]

Unless you knew the person that made the pill, you cannot be sure (and even then, do you trust this person?) until it is tested - and you can't legally walk into a testing facility with illegal contraband.

You can walk into a testing facility with illegal contraband if you partially own the testing facility. ;) I trust the person that made the pill because he's my uncle but he gives me smaller pills than the others they distribute and sell so you have a good point. :p Only tried it twice in my life but it was a blast. :D

Delta, want to buy from me? Hehe.

[nappydread]

...like most of you here, i don't really have a problem with trying it as long as your source is reputable. I've come across various quality levels...and either right or wrong i've taken most of them. With that being said, i really don't like the "day after" feeling about this drug (though its mostly due to the impurities in the dose im sure). E-Tard is right! Its sometimes worse than an alcohol hangover. Whereas, with lsd for example, if your trip was successful then your spirits are uplifted the next day, your happy to be alive and you roll along with a positive attitude:)

peace

[Pedata]

Take a slice of yellow onion and chop it up small. Melt a little bit of grease in a frying pan and slow fry those onions until they are practically black and very sticky. Now eat them. They will taste good and savory.

Be prepared to burp immensely :eek:

I don't know what they'll do to you but they sure did something to me. My mind opened up and my intellegence quotient seemed to skyrocket. I also felt in tip top health. The burping almost knocked pictures off the walls. My mind was roaring like a freight train going 500 miles an hour. For six hours I worked on a small sci fi thing I was writing. Words were coming to me like nobody's business. I created a well rounded character named Ganteth the Squirrel. I learned how rocket fuel is made. I was there. In the story. Living it. Yet at the same time I stayed objective and stuck to the storyline. It was awesome, amazing, and other words.

I mailed it off later and it got printed in a tiny little freebee paper.

I named the onion recipe. "Onion Spring Tonic".

Hey Delta :) I bet you can figure out what kind of chemical proccess took place from slow frying those onions. I'm guessing some kind of super sugars concentration?

Peace,
Cassandra

[granolamomma]

I was pretty heavy into the rave scene in the late 90's so I did alot of X. I really enjoyed it. I agree with everything delta said about them too, except I did buy them from random people, but I knew the risk I was taking, and the next day we would try to figure out what other kinds of drugs were actuallly in them. (Mainly speed or heroin in what we did) In our area, the quality has gone way down, and they are harder to get (plus I've been preggo or nursing for the past 2.5 yrs), so we don't do them anymore. But anyway, X is one of my favorite drugs, I attribute using it to making me the person I am today. It sounds weird, but it really did make me a more happy, caring person. I think that the biggest problem with it nowadays is that the kids using it don't take care of each other, and in turn kids are getting dehydrated, overheating and all kinds of bad stuff. I really miss that whole scene though.

[delta9]

Hey Delta :) I bet you can figure out what kind of chemical proccess took place from slow frying those onions. I'm guessing some kind of super sugars concentration?
Yes, the starches turn into sugars; I would guess that slow frying would be lower heat and at lower heat you probably burn away less starch and convert a lot more to sugar making super sticky yummy onions! But, chemistry is my worst science subject and I happen to remember this being in one of my chemistry books once :rolleyes: ... I'm much better with botany/biology and physics :o

Delta, want to buy from me? Hehe.
No, I don't know you (or your uncle) let alone trust you with my body... no offense :)

E-Tard is right! Its sometimes worse than an alcohol hangover. Whereas, with lsd for example, if your trip was successful then your spirits are uplifted the next day, your happy to be alive and you roll along with a positive attitude
Yeah, MDMA is a fairly nice drug as things go... but it can't hold a candle to LSD

(Mainly speed or heroin in what we did)
It is highly unlikely there was heroin in any of your ecstasy - even once.

[granolamomma]

It is highly unlikely there was heroin in any of your ecstasy - even once.

when you wrote that, i looked it up and stand corrected, but there was some kind of drug that has a very similar effect.. more than just mdma

[delta9]

More likely Ephedrine or PseudoEphedrine with MDE, if I had to guess, but I'm definately no expert on ecstasy and how the different adulterants change the experience :)

[Sunnydaydreams]

i have heard there are ways to test the purity of tablets. if you want to try it, make sure you are ready. i tried it twice & it was fun both times, although the 2nd time it wasn't as pure as the first. it probably had been cut w/ crank or something b/c i felt sober & focused after about 2 hours (i may have ADD; i'm going to be tested soon) uppers do affect me differently than most; they tend to calm me down. my expeirences are probably far from normal.

have fun but be prepared!

Peace & love

[BandAide]

The main problem I have with any of those kind of drugs is that it's a man made chemical, produced and sold to you through who knows how long a chain of people, all out to make money off you with no regard for your own safety or well being. Personally I think ingesting anything like that is just not a smart thing to do. If you want to do a bunch of research, go out in your garage and cook up some stuff and shoot yourself up with it to see what happens, more power to you. Still stupid, but at least you have the option of knowing what's going into your body.


The other problem I have with chemical drugs and hard drugs in general for the most part is the effect they have on people around you and society as a whole. The majority of people doing these drugs are young people who either have no insurance or are covered under that of their parents. When you go out and fuck yourself up on drugs and end up going to the hospital for tens of thousands of dollars of tests and treatments, who do you think pays for that? I'll tell you: I do. I don't feel I should have to pay for the fact that young people and their respective families can't manipulate their lives in such a way as to not need chemical substances to make life tolerable. While a lot of people probably think this is a harsh viewpoint or that it makes me sound 'old' or 'conservative', it is the fact of the matter. Like I said in another thread today; there are lots of natural, reasonably safe substances you can entertain yourself with and risk little harm to anyone other than some of your own braincells.


BRAVO! CLAP! CLAP! CLAP!

[delta9]

But why? I mean what parts specifically.

Aside from just the "chemical drugs" thing, here's another food for thought;
I don't feel I should have to pay for the fact that young people and their respective families can't manipulate their lives in such a way as to not need chemical substances to make life tolerable.
I fully agree with this. No one should be taking any chemical substance, be it methamphetamine, heroin, cannabis, acid, ecstasy, nicotine, or even caffeine to make their life tolerable - and you certainly should not have to pay for those that do; however, this is almost as bad as the AntiDrug commercial "when you scan me, do you see another disturbed, futureless pot smoking teenager?" which implies that all pot smoking teenagers are disturbed and futureless. What I don't agree with is the implication that the only reasons people take ecstasy is to make their life more tolerable (escapism). It is implication by omission. Therefore, I must note: Some very responsible people take ecstasy and other drugs for reasons much greater than simple escapism.

Again, hate the abuser, not the drug - or the responsible user. It's just a drug - and some people can just use it.

[BandAide]

Oh... I just thought his answers were funny.

Toman's opinionated fashion can be really entertaining to me. It's colorful.

As for the subject at hand... I don't know anything about it!

[delta9]

Oh... I just thought his answers were funny.

Toman's opinionated fashion can be really entertaining to me. It's colorful.
Oh to that I agree whole heartedly :)

... I just like to argue :D

As for the subject at hand... I don't know anything about it!
Well, I hope you learned something about it just reading this topic! :)

[BandAide]

I did.

Thank You for being continually factual and preventing a bunch of people from possible death, Delta.

You are a wealth of information.

[delta9]

Awww, thank you... I am doing nothing but regurgitation of information passed onto myself through research and discussion; it is my duty to help with ending the war on drugs by helping to get good information about "drugs" everywhere I can and to whomever will listen - and if I save a few lives in the process then I did even better... I am nothing but a humble messenger; you should neither shoot me nor hold me at all high. I am deeply touched by your praise :)

speaking of saving lives, that reminds me...

The most dangerous thing about MDMA by itself is in context of strenous physical activities - if you are going to be in a club, bar, or rave, and on ecstasy, you absolutely *must* stay hydrated because it is all too easy to become dehydrated and/or overheated on ecstasy... Better to take ecstasy in a nice, laid back enviornment around people you are comfortable with so that you can better experience the introspection and all-lovingness without risking yourself to forgetting to drink water because you were so distracted by the dancing! :)

Peace http://www.rumandcoke.net/merlin/emote/sun.gif

[delta9]

Only because this is a thread about ecstasy; I will point out that MDMA does not kill or damage brain cells anymore than THC or LSD do. Again, MDMA is a relatively safe drug (like THC or LSD or Psilocybin) - the very common adulterants are *not* safe, and thus the drug "ecstasy" is not at all safe.
I should qualify this, as well... THC, LSD, and Psilocybin are (nearly, at least it is well accepted) proven to cause no brain damage. These are "safe" drugs, in that sense... MDMA is still not proven to be completely safe - there are studies which seem to show no damage and there are studies which seem to show some damage. MDMA is metabolized into active amphetamines in your body before being further metabolized into inactives - and amphetamines are proven to cause brain damage! The key here, as with many drugs, is moderation. Don't roll often and you minimize the risk of possible damage from long term amphetamine use by your MDMA metabolizing. :) Most often, people recommend 1-3 months between rolls. Personally, I would not do it more than once a year.

[Pedata]

Good point, Delta :D Everything in moderation.

Including moderation? lol

Peace,
Cassandra

[BandAide]

I have a question: I have tried to take e on two separate occassions (once in a pill form and once in a powder that my friend called "molly"), both years apart (and years ago.) I was with friends and everyone else was having a great time and talking about all the great effects they were benefitting from. And I was sitting there thinking, "are they all faking it?"

Is it possible to not be suceptible to a drug? I had no results... except for getting a little bit sleepy from all the second hand pot smoke.

[delta9]

If it really was molly, which is *meant* to be a term for pure MDMA powder though obviously people call stuff they are trying to sell molly regardless of its purity, do you have any idea how much you took? The standard dose is between 80 and 150 milligrams - which is thousands of times less than the LD50 (dose where 50% of lab animals die, making it safer than alcohol in this sense).

I have never heard of anyone being "resistent" to MDMA. There is a small percentage of the population lacking a liver enzyme which causes them to be MORE susceptable to MDMA; it is possible there might be a corrolory extra enzyme which makes you resistant, but I find this unlikely as there is next to no data I have found on it...

If I had to guess, I'd say it was bunk and they were getting the "placebo" effect. We've all seen, or heard of (and if you haven't now you have), people who have not smoked cannabis very much being given other herbs, like oregano, and claiming to be high from smoking it. This is a result of the placebo effect (our minds are powerful things).

But... Every drug effects everyone differently, so you just may be an MDMA weirdo BandAide - though it is highly unlikely.

[BandAide]

I would think so too... about the placebo effect, I mean.

My hesitation in this is that the friend who took it also and had a positive effect is a drug conissure, if you will. I mean, I watched this particular girl do a pill and hour one New Years Eve. She's a crazy, risky drug person. She's done everything and is really knowledgable about drugs. She knows where she gets them and if the quality is good.

I do not know how much I took. I did what my friend called "a print." (I don't know anything about this and I was MUCH younger and more risky with my health then.)

Perhaps I am just a weirdo. Someone once suggested that my seratonin levels are naturally high and aren't effected by it. From what you're saying, this seems to have no corrolation.

It doesn't really matter now, as I'd never do it again. It's just curiousity. But we all know what happened to that cat, eh?

[granolamomma]

Bandaide-alot of antidepressants (SSRIs) will lessen the experience you get from a roll too. I don't know if you've taken any, but it is a possiblity.


The most dangerous thing about MDMA by itself is in context of strenous physical activities - if you are going to be in a club, bar, or rave, and on ecstasy, you absolutely *must* stay hydrated because it is all too easy to become dehydrated and/or overheated on ecstasy... Better to take ecstasy in a nice, laid back enviornment around people you are comfortable with so that you can better experience the introspection and all-lovingness without risking yourself to forgetting to drink water because you were so distracted by the dancing!

ITA w/ this! If you are going to a club or a rave, I really think it is best to use a buddy system and make sure that there is someone looking out for you. IME you don't always notice when you are getting dehydrated or overheated, but if you have someone else to look after you, things will go alot smoother. I also reccomend stocking up on water and any other supplies before you start your roll. Get some of those plastic bottles of water, and keep it with you. We used to buy a few big things of water, OJ, blow pops or binkis, and glow sticks before we got started.

[mamasharones]

No offense..... and you shouldn't take offense because I've rolled too, but I think it's about the stupidest drug out there. I don't think it has a purpose and I know people who have nearly died (including myself) or have died from people not selling actual MDMA. If you love yourself and your brain don't roll!

[Pedata]

This kid I knew told me that when you do it everything feels real good. He and his buddy took turns slapping each other in the face because it felt so good. Truth or was he just talking? Not that I'd ever do it, I can take aspirin and get high, lol.

Peace,
Cassandra

[delta9]

erowid: MDMA effects (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_effects.shtml), specifically "increased awareness of senses. (eating, drinking, smell)" and "sensations bright and intense" which translates to "tactile senses are gooood". This kid you knew is as stupid a drug user as I was in my early high school days - my friends and I one time ate a bunch of painkillers and ran into each other at full speed because it felt good. These things are generally unproductive and dangerous. Better to gently caress on ecstasy, it will feel a thousand times better and last longer than a slap to the face (which could potentially do other damage).

[1_LoVinVibe]

No offense..... and you shouldn't take offense because I've rolled too, but I think it's about the stupidest drug out there. I don't think it has a purpose and I know people who have nearly died (including myself) or have died from people not selling actual MDMA. If you love yourself and your brain don't roll!

i'm with mamasharones...

last time i rolled, i was really close to going to the ER.. if it wasn't for my friends, i probably would've lost my mind. i know the pill was cut with some sketchy stuff, but i don't know what. if there's no stopping you in doing it.. atleast go for the mali, mdma in its purest form.

DONT do it if you have any kind of nervous system disorder (ex: anxiety/panic attacks) .... to this day, i still don't feel the same as i did before i did it... and that was almost 3 years ago. apparently my body was harboring some illnesses that i had no idea about... the x weakened my body so low to the point of my immune system failing, and bringing out lyme disease and a few other things that just aren't fun to live with. i'm still on my path to determine EXACTLY what happened that night... if anyone has any leads or opinions, i'd love to hear them.

But, just because I don't want anyone to ever have a bad experience with any drug... like nappydread said.. make sure you're getting it from a reputable source.

[Pedata]

Oh my, Vibe, you poor thing. That must be awful. Hopefully it will work it's way out, or the damage will repair soon. I bet if anyone has any ideas it would be Delta.
Oh Delta..........? (I can just see him doing the research right now. lol)

Peace,
Cassandra

[delta9]

Well, uh, lyme disease is caused by a tick... And it's most treatable in early stages, so I hope you have done something? Or you are saying you were bitten and the symptoms didn't start to appear until that fateful night with adulterated ecstasy? You did deal with it, right? 'Cause it's one of those things that if you just let lie it will just get worse, eventually causing arthritis, heart problems, and nervous system problems. Did you get it from a tick or did your mother have it (it can cross placenta)?

As to what was in it, no one can really tell so long after the fact. I'm not really aware of any adulterants of ecstasy that necessarily weaken your immune system, though many of them (including MDMA itself) can play hell with some people's livers, which may have contributed, though I'm really not sure.

I wish I could be more help :(

I'll do some research when I wake up in the morning, but really, past pill IDs are nigh impossible. It could have been anything that would fit in the pill.