Tankless upgrade

[Unkle_John]

So, many of you know that I’m slowing making my house more eco-efficient. When we chose this house we liked many things about it having so much potential for converting it to a more energy efficient place. Now, I’m not talking about just replacing the windows and such, I’m talking about solar shades, solar panels, water collectors, and many other possibilities. The house already had the most expensive thing done, a metal roof. Well sometime would come soon when I needed to replace our water heater. Unfortunately, that came sooner than we wanted to know. Thankfully we didn’t have to learn the hard way (a 3am flood).

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/unklejohn/water%20heater/DSCF0010.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/unklejohn/water%20heater/DSCF0009.jpg

So for some time now, about a month or two, the hot water heater started to leak. The drips were about 10-12 and hour. No big deal, right? I just used the drippings to water my plants with. Well, last month that increased to 6 drips a minute. I then decided it was time to get a replacement. I did some research and talked to people and decided that I’m going to do it and get one. Plus I would get a tax rebate on it too. I stumbled across this company while watching eBay auctions. Yeah, don’t knock eBay, you can find deals and if your good (like me, wink) you can snipe them. So, anyways, this company sells them and these are new or reconditioned (http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/excelamerica_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ) (with a limited warranty I believe). You can tell by the auction, if it has a reserve it’s new, if it doesn’t have a reserve it’s reconditioned. BTW the reserve is a dollar under 2 hundred. Yeah I paid that much for it!

Remember the research part? Well I back-tracked this company to their website (http://www.excelamerica.com) (provided by their eBay store) and looked over the product. I also found that some auctions had this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuTVLlgWGM4) attached. After seeing the mechanics and finding that they were Energy Star rated, I thought I would be a fool to pass this up. There are two models they offer, and you have to pay attention to the listing. The one I purchased was from my decision, not the price (they go for the same amount). I bought the unit with the battery spark (like in the video). The other unit uses the coolest technology that I would recommend for anyone, not just for cabins. It uses this turbine, that’s powered by the water pressure, to create a spark. I opted not to get it because the company didn’t list a replacement part for it. I know I could still put a filter on my line, but for the possible future owner, I just opted to use this method.

So I sniped the auction a few days before the new year. You know why that was critical? Tax rebate, baby. Including shipping and insurance, I paid a total $224.59. It took about 7 days to get to me, and when I got it I opened it right up to inspect it. I just sat there in amazement that I got such a deal and how happy I was to finally have decent hot water at the fraction of the cost!

But next I had to install it. This was going to be fun.

[Unkle_John]

So finally the day came, the day I knew would be a headache. I got the water shut off and the gas line closed and I started to drain the old heater. The heater for some reason wasn’t draining easily and for some reason wasn’t coming out of the hose. My father in law was on his way over to help and happen to call. He told me to tap the spigot, well I did and it broke right off, and then it started to glug out at a normal pace.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/unklejohn/water%20heater/DSCF0007.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/unklejohn/water%20heater/DSCF0006.jpg


We squeezed up into the closet and start to undo the water lines. That didn’t take as long as I figured, but the best was yet to come. We didn’t have all the parts we actually needed. My FIL had the pipes attached yet it was still leaking, then he realized after much frustration, that the pipes were backwards in the house. Well just the pipes that came into the water heater.

So, after a trip up to hardware store to return a few unused parts and to get new ones we had the unit complete with no leaks. It runs great out of the sinks and Julie took a shower last night. She was a little upset that it wasn’t coming out as hot as it should from the tub facet, but the shower attachment had no problem. I think we may have a problem with that facet.

Since the old water heater was hooked up backwards since 1994, there was gunk in the pipes that blew out from it. We think the tub facet may be corroded enough that it’s hindering the hot water from getting into the tub and retain its heat. I’m not sure, but I think this will be the last major project I attempt. We all agreed that next time we will hire someone to do anything else to the house. What needs to be done is electrical and insulation. But that’s beside the point. I took my shower and I must say that I’m slightly upset that the water wasn't as hot as I would have liked it. But it will do for now.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/unklejohn/water%20heater/DSCF0009-1.jpg

The next day (today) I just ran a load of dishes in our portable dishwasher. The unit kicked on about 5 times and only stayed on for about 10-15 seconds before the dishwasher didn’t need hot water. I’m thinking of using cold water in the dish washer anyways. The unit has a heating coil in it so it can heat the water and we can use the tankless for its other uses. But I’m happy about his purchase. I think too that when our weather gets warmer the shower will seem warmer to me. But the main thing is now I am one more step closer to making this home greener. I’ll give you all an update as they come along. It may be a month or so before we see any savings. Since the tanked heater leaked and such, it should be hard to tell when the usage stopped. But I’ll keep y'all up to date on this.

But to recap this cost us a total (including parts and doing the labor ourselves) around $325.
Would I do this again? Possibly, now that we have a better knowledge of this. But I'm not doing anymore major upgrades myself. Nect time I will call a professional.
Would I recommend this unit? Definitely.

[LIBRA]

Thats cool John! Ive been wondering if you did it or not.

Is there a temp adjustement on the tank? If there is maybe its set to low and you can turn it up Or you may have junk stuck in the cartridge to your tub/shower.

If you would have hired a professional you would have paid WAY more then 325.00, I think that was a steal of a deal!!!! A headache yes, but thats better then an empty wallet :D

Are those threaded brass 90's coming out? Doesnt brass corrode faster then copper? Or is it galvanized that corrodes faster? Ive never seen flexible copper wtr lines either, is that what those are? Interesting. Very Interesting :D

[Unkle_John]

Thanks!

To answer...

Yes there is a temp adjust, I cranked it up to max just to see. I waited about 2-3 minutes. I may try longer, but it sounds like there is obstruction in the cartridge. There is a pressure adjust and temp adjust The thing that looks like one dial it's actually two.

Yes and I'm not sure. Those are 90's but I don't recall if they are brass or copper. The lines are copper. You couldn't see it in my pics, but the tank had copper flex hose coming out of the wall to the unit.

When we get ready to remodel the bathroom.. I'm flying Ed out to work his magic (http://www.happyhippie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3656).

[LIBRA]

Never mind brass is fine, wont rust out and leak, unless you have sulfer wtr or heavy chlorinated wtr.

Is it a delta faucet, Ive seen those with a temp setting and pressure setting, there easy to repair too if there is something in the cartridge, Ive got a moen tub/shower fct and Ive had to pull the cartridge and replace it, it wasnt bad but I have iron in my wtr so over time it builds up and I have to replace the cartridge.

Ya Id love for Ed to remodle my Bathroom and Kitchen!!! Come on Ed, you can even bring the family a mini vacation to the boondocks LOL

[Unkle_John]

I'm not sure what brand it is, it isn't embossed anywhere. When we first moved in I replaced the sink faucet in the bathroom and the whole sink and facet from the kitchen. The bathroom was the worse and with out cutting and soldering, I couldn't put shut off valves on it. I did replace the faucet with a Glacier Bay Teapot (http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/76/76e81bfa-caef-48b3-974a-55e51c55d9aa_300.jpg), the original facet (http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/17/1750bbb3-8500-4c50-b5f5-9d0e630f8ae8_300.jpg) had those crappy plastic handles (you know they are suppose to make you think they are glass.) that busted my knuckles. The sink reminded me of a gas station sink. We like the vintage look the bathroom has and want to keep it kinda like an out house. I'll scan a photo when i can of this bathroom that looks really awesome in that "country outhouse" look.

[Unkle_John]

COMING SOON:

6 Month Update.

[poppy]

One of these units was just purchased for the house we are living in. We haven't installed it yet....it'll be pretty neat to hear the 6 month update....

[Unkle_John]

BUMP

Sorry I didn't do a 6 month, but I plan on giving a year tested review in a few days or so.
Poppy, did you get your unit installed? Was it the same one?

[Unkle_John]

Well, it's almost been a full year since we upgraded and I'm happy to report that I have had no problems with my unit at all. I have had to take the time to learn how to adjust the heater. The trick is to make sure you have the correct water flow adjusted with the correct temperature. We found out the hard way, believe me! LOL

So after all of that, what did I save? Well, our water bill did go down to about half and the gas bill dropped to the lowest I have ever seen a gas bill, $9! Not to mention we got a tax break last year on our income tax return.

Would I recommend this unit?

Yes.
Since the manufacturer claims it doesn't require venting, it actually does need to vent. I would suggest that the best place for this unit in a basement or out in a garage or somewhere the unit will get alot of ventilation. In my case I have the proper ventilation for the unit, but from observations I can see why you might want to consider doing so.

Was there any drawbacks with this unit?

Kinda.
I say "kinda" because of the situation we are in. We live in the southwest, and in the summer time the ground water is warmer, so the unit kicks off more often than I would like it to. This can probably be fixed by adjusting the flow and temp. I haven't done that because I don't want to mess up what I have. LOL I know I'm odd. But in the winter time, you can take nice long hot showers before the unit gets tired enough to kick off. So I'm sure all of that can be fixed with adjusting the knobs.

I would like to report that according to the manufacture's eBay listings, they have changed the design of the unit, and in a positive way. They have gotten rid of the dial inside the dial design and gone for an easier two separate knob design. This, I like and kinda wish they would have done this years ago. But I'm satisfied with the unit I have. Oh and I'm still using the same batteries. I would recommend changing them after a year, just like your smoke detectors.

So I hope this helped out anyone who is considering upgrading to a tankless water heater. In my opinion (as you have seen with this whole article) that I am very pleased with it and I would only recommend something like this to people if I feel that it's not only worth the investment, but also the change of life style that it brings. With this product, I don't have to worry about turning the tanked water heater down for vacations or even coming home to a potential flood.

[PEACE FROG]

Which unit did you buy? What are the specs? What are you running off of it? Shower, dish washer and laundry equiptment? I am in the process of changing out mine I bought a 50 gal tank- natural gas... but its still in the box. How many GPM? Were you able to run this unit off a 1/2 inch gas supply? I was researching the Bosche units and was stoked until I read the customer comments. OMG! There were some unhappy people! Could you post a spec sheet I'm very interested in this.

[LIBRA]

Weve installed some Bosch units and have had mixed reviews. People with well water had to descale them alot, it kept getting build up and not heating properly. The coils are so small doesnt take much I guess.
So with some maintence they seem to be ok, but most people dont like maintence.

[Unkle_John]

Which unit did you buy?

Excel Automatic Tankless Water Heater
Here is a link directly (http://www.excelamerica.com/calentadores_eng.htm) to the unit on the manufacture's site.


What are the specs?

They are on the site's link above, brother.


What are you running off of it? Shower, dish washer and laundry equipment?

I don't run them all at once, but the heater is hooked up to the shower, bathroom sink, portable dishwasher (it's currently broken, so I hand wash again) and kitchen sink. Our washing machine for our clothes is in the garage and is on a separate water tap. We only use cold water fir it.


How many GPM?

Hot Water Max Flow: 95 Gallons per Hour ( 1.6 gpm) with a 45°F temp rise.
But as I said, there is a water flow knob to adjust that.


Were you able to run this unit off a 1/2 inch gas supply?

Yes, it's 1/2in. Our gas line was 3/8in and we had to buy an adapter.

PM me your email address and I'll scan and send you my owner's manual. It has alot more info than what's on the site.

I hope it helps you, Ed. Like I said, reread my progress and my findings so that you know what to expect when you switch to a tankless unit. My biggest gripe is that it takes up to a minute when the ground water is very cold (like this time of year) and I feel that it wastes the water. In the warmer months it doesn't take as long, but it does shut off more frequently. That can be adjusted with the temp and water flow knobs. you just have to experiment with what works best for your needs.