Can you eat cheese and still call yourself a vegetarian?

[*RaiN*]

I got in this HUGE debate with my sister becuase she basically preaches to everyone about what a good vegetarian she is, yett she eats cheese. I tried to tell her that almost all cheese contains rennett which is obtained by cutting the cow/goat open and getting it from the stomach, but she said that not all cheese contains rennett. Which is true, but she isn't one to go and check it restraunts or even at home if shes eating rennett free cheese. Could you still call yourself a vegetarian if you ate cheese containing rennett>? Thanks.
~*Rain*~

[treehugger]

Well...you know, some people eat fish and seafood and still call themselves vegetarian....

although I wouldn't.

For me, if you killed something animal...it's not vegetarian. If you ate an animal produced product...you're still vegetarian but not if the animal had to die.

[Pedata]

There are rennet substitutes. But there's probably not much way of knowing if it's in her cheese or not. If it's plainly labeled vegetarian it has the substitute, but I bet it costs a lot.


Peace,
Cassandra

[delta9]

VEGAN = no animal products whatsoever; not even honey

Lacto-vegetarian = eats dairy products but no meats or eggs

Ovo-vegetarian = eats eggs but no meats

Ovo-lacto vegetarian = eats eggs and dairy

And there's another category although I'm hard-pressed to call it "vegetarian"...

Pesco vegetarian = eats fish and seafood

Cheese = dairy, no?

[Pedata]

Oh, what's in a name? ....a rose by any other name.....etc.

It's just catagories to define different eating habits.

I'm an omnivore. I don't care for that word, it's not pleasant to pronounce. I prefer hunter/gatherer. It's an ancient diet.

My niece is a 'vegetariansometimes-sneaks-porkchops'

Maybe you could call your sister a 'vegetarian' at every opportunity until she's sick of hearing it, lol. Oh, that's evil.

Lol.

Peace :smilie_ju
Cassandra

[Pedata]

Did you know honey is actually bee barf?


Lol

[Herbmama]

I'm an omnivore. I don't care for that word, it's not pleasant to pronounce. I prefer hunter/gatherer. It's an ancient diet.

A friend of mine used to call himself an Opportunivore, given the opportunity he'd eat it.

[LIBRA]

BEE PUKE IS MY FAVORITE!!! :smilie_wa

and whats this about ripping guts open to make cheese, maybe I am not the brightest but I thought cheese was milk fermented and swirld around poured then aged or somethingI knew nothing of ripped open guts!! someone explain!!
vegetarian is just another label, I will not label myself to any one thing I dont know they bother me, I do like pedeta's label though!!

[Pedata]

In biblical times the stomachs of animals were used to transport liquids. There were no plastic bottles back then. Everyone used animal stomachs as containers. Many of these containers contained watered down cheap wine- but I digress. There was something in the stomachs of young goats that formed the curds and whey when milk was in it. That 'something' was rennet. The curds were dried and that's what cheese is.

Why were they using the stomachs of young goats? Because if you waited to eat a goat when it was full grown it was very tough meat.

Some rennet today is made from a bacteria that exudes rennet. I suspect this type of rennet is going to be used more and more because it's cheaper to make.

So if you eat cheese you are willfully subjecting bacteria (an innocent life form) to a life of living in crowded petrie dishes and being forced to produce, produce, produce :eek: Lol.

You can't have cheese without rennet. I don't know about those single slices things. They have to be labeled as 'cheese food' because they're not actually cheese, in and of itself. I think they're a form of edible plastic, lol.

Bee Barf Rules! Steal some bee's barf today!!

Peace,
Cassandra

[freakyfairy]

I don't know about those single slices things. They have to be labeled as 'cheese food' because they're not actually cheese, in and of itself. I think they're a form of edible plastic, lol.

Peace,
Cassandra

wow.... i love those little slices of 'cheesey' plastic... mmmmmmmmmmm processed food is so bad but those little slices of yellow goodness are so irrisistable...... string cheese is good too....

[Pedata]

wow.... i love those little slices of 'cheesey' plastic... mmmmmmmmmmm processed food is so bad but those little slices of yellow goodness are so irrisistable...... string cheese is good too....
Lol, I love them too. They just taste good :) But I buy the blocks, they're soooo much cheaper. And then there's velveeta........:D

Peace,
Cassandra

[plainjanepatchwork]

Mmmm cheese. I can't give it up! I have been a vegetarian for 12 years and try to go vegan every once in a while but I just can't leave the cheese alone. I don't drink milk because I don't like and I don't like honey. I guess it must be my proximity to Wisconsin and the abundance of kick ass cheese curds. Oh and don't get me started on string cheese! It is so fun and so yummy. :animal-sm

[vegansoul]

I know what you mean about giving up cheese. I gave it up but still had the desire. Then I watched a dvd called Peaceable Kingdom (damn good movie) and that was it for any desire. I could no longer support the veal industry even in my desires. Cheese and all dairy products are directly related to veal. The rape rack, the perpetually pregnant cows, the hormones, the antibiotics, the mastitis, the taking the baby cows away in four days or less for veal -- it is horrendous. I actually am not interested at all now and therefore I don't miss it.

This movie "Peaceable Kingdom" is about love and following your heart. It features former farmers, one a 4th generation cattle farmer who goes around the country saying that the amount of animal products a person should eat is zero.

I don't judge another person about their food choices -- that definitely does the animals no good. I think that if you can cut your cheese in half it's a good thing. Whatever is sustainable for you for life.

If you're still eating meat or eggs -- try cutting it in half if going vegan is not for you. Whatever you can do to help alleviate the suffering of other beings is a good thing.

Peace,
Christina

[Pedata]

Mmmm.....veal parmesan :D


Peace,
Cassandra

[treehugger]

heh heh...eew....veal is about the farthest thing down on the list of things I can ever eat....

eew.....

Kath

[wyldflower]

Some rennet today is made from a bacteria that exudes rennet. I suspect this type of rennet is going to be used more and more because it's cheaper to make.

I just did a quick google search (the rennet issue has been bothering me for a while), and, indeed, looks like rennet can come from a variety of sources that don't involve killing animals. The problem is in the labelling because companies don't have to say where their "enzymes" are coming from. Some cheeses list rennet as an ingredient, but some just say "enzymes" or "cheese cultures" or something similar. And they rarely tell you where any of these things came from :(

On the bright side, Organic Valley claims on their website (www.organicvalley.com) that they don't use animal rennets in any of their cheeses. The Whole Foods Market around here sells this brand, and I've found it to be pretty good--almost as good as Velveeta ;) .

[xscootergirlx]

yeah of course you would still be a vegetarian if you ate cheese--but you would not be vegan.

[vegansoul]

So many people don't realize the absolute direct connection of veal and dairy, they go hand in hand. The more we purchase dairy, milk, cheese, yogurt, ice cream, etc., the more the veal industry is supported. Cows, like people, don't make milk unless they had a baby. The male babies are crated for veal, given no milk and we, the humans, collect that milk intended for her baby. The cows are kept in a state of perpetual pregnancy for up to about 5 years then they are killed for burger meat. Their normal life span would be 20 years. If you see footage of this reality, all desire for even the tastiest Ben and Jerry's ice cream will go away in an instant.

That's how the system works, whether it's organic milk or hormone / antibiotic conventional milk.

Peace,
Christina

[shaina]

that kind of stuff doesn't happen at oreganic valley i know alot of people who work for them and are the original owners all there dairy comes just out of wisconsin and they don't use rennit!

[vegansoul]

I just called Organic Valley and they do not directly use the baby boy calves for veal, though they may sell their baby boy calves to a conventional veal factory farmer. Though it's not that often they said because their baby calves are raised organic and so they cost more. Their boy calves are normally raised for organic beef and slaughtered after 2 years. But I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't an organic veal business that is not part of organic valley. I've not the time now to research it. It's good to know that Organic Valley for the most part is doing things a thousand times better than the nasty factory farmed diary.

Peace,
Christina

[vegansoul]

Well it only took a second on google for organic veal:

http://www.localharvest.org/veal.jsp

Nice picture of a now eaten baby calf.

Oh well.

"When we ourselves are the living graves of murdered beasts, how can we expect any ideal conditions on this earth?" -George Bernard Shaw

[wyldflower]

Is there a dairy farm out there that doesn't support the veal industry at all? Does anyone know?

Whether you're primarily vegan or vegetarian, if you're concerned about animal cruelty, it's a good thing at least to know what you're options are...

On a side note, a "what if" question for those who are vegan: if dairy farms, as a rule, did not support the veal industry, would you still remain vegan?

[vegansoul]

Well that is impossible to answer in reality since cows don't make milk without being perpetually pregnant and so they will have boy calves and girl calves. Those male calves will become veal (organic or crated white veal), raised for beef, raised for organic beef or conventional beef, or used for food somewhere down the line. A farmer or agribusiness operation can't just keep having cows with no profit because feeding and housing the cows costs a lot.

They don't allow the baby boy calves to drink from their mother for more than a couple days or less since that milk is for humans. So they remove the baby.

In addition, the constant pregnancy is one after another with 2 months in between generally. This takes the life span of a cow from a natural 20 years to 5 years and then they are killed for burger meat. They have many problems constantly being milked by machine and standing in concrete stalls day in and day out for most of them. It's slavery plain and simple.

In the factory farming industry the agribusiness industry pump the cow full of hormones to make more and more milk, this also takes a heavy toll on the utters and puss and blood get in the milk and dairy.

So nope, I have lost all desire for dairy for the rest of my days. It's cruel to make a cow or any being the slave to another. If I had my own farm and my own cow who had a baby, the milk would be as nature inteded, for her baby. But then only a sanctuary supported by donations can do that, since a farm needs to make money to survive. I'd plant grain, soy, or something that would feed the most amount of people and make the soil better.

[LIBRA]

even if you are eating organic how do you really know, its so scary all the stuff they put in food and milk, pretty much nothing is natural, I buy organic cereals and fruit and things I can afford for my son, I think all this crap in foods is whats killing us seems like it would. It is so expensive to even try to live naturally its depressing to me I live on a tight budget and sometimes we eat whats there which I always try to keep it healthy and wholesome but even then, produce has chemicals, meat, milk, bread, cheese I hate to think about it, is it really organic?? it is sad for the animals yes but what about the people who have no clue what the hell they are even eating because they are poor have no choice its either eat some chemicals or die,
it should be the other way around, natural organic living should be less expensive and if you want your food faster, stronger and brighter pumped full of crap then you can pay out the bum for it!! I grow my own veggies and can them, who's to say the seeds I buy arent produced that way so it seems pointless and a big fat round circle that just keeps coming back!!

sorry if that was pointless rant but it made sense in my head!!

[Pedata]

The only cereals I buy are, I guess, organic. Oatmeal, cream of wheat, and grits. They all have to be cooked. They are kind of blah. But there's nothing in them but what they are. And they're cheap. Boxed cereal, and even bagged anymore, is outrageously high-priced.

Organic foods are very popular right now, that's why they're so high.

Anything that becomes popular is high priced.

When the low/no salt craze came everyone wanted low/no salt food. They could always get it but then it shot up in price.

The atkins diet has put meat up to ridiculous prices. Eggs are finally going down.

Shredded Wheat used to be cheap, because it was blah and good for you and no one was lining up to get it. Now that "healthy" food is popular Shredded Wheat has gone up like all the other stuff.

I have two peach trees that grow organic peaches. All that means is that I don't spray them and they end up all bug bit. So I cut out the bit parts and use them.

...just my ramblings, I'm tired...

Zzzzzz,
Cassandra

[wyldflower]

What did people do back in the day--you know, a hundred, two hundred, five hundred years ago--before there was factory farming and before the hormones were given to cows and the constant pregnancies? People ate plenty of dairy back then, and the cows weren't kept in tiny stalls...

Isn't that what organic, free-range dairy farms are supposed to be about today? I could be mistaken, but in that case, the industry is very misleading. People who want to spend extra money to support such farms are led to believe that what they're buying comes from a cruelty-free enviornment--that the animals are not treated as slaves and live healthy lives.

[Pedata]

What did people do back in the day--you know, a hundred, two hundred, five hundred years ago--before there was factory farming and before the hormones were given to cows and the constant pregnancies? People ate plenty of dairy back then, and the cows weren't kept in tiny stalls...

Well, when times were good people ate good. But sometimes they went hungry and ate their dogs. And sometimes people just starved to death. Or they subsisted on a bad diet (like only flour for months) and got sick and died. The child mortality rate, in the old days, was terrible. Most people lost one or two children before they reached age two. Visit graveyards from the 17 and 18 hundreds and see how many graves are of kids under two. Parents held thier breath until a child was over two. Usually if they made it that far they would become adults.

People tried to protect thier livestock from illnesses with charms and spells.

Or they blamed a witch, for sick animals and bad crops, and had her burned.

Not everybody had livestock, tho. Most people just struggled along on what they could grow or steal. People were murdered over cows. Stealing was one way of putting food on the table.

In the pioneer days of the U.S. it was legal to have an able bodied son put to death by the court system if the boy was lazy and wouldn't help with the getting of food.

Basically, people worked from dawn to dusk to have a small meal each day.

We have more food now that ever before, in the U.S. Times like these have never been seen before.

The good ole days were only good in today's modern movies, lol.

That's why vaccinations and ways to improve the growing of animals were developed.

Animals were not treated "kindly" back then. If you had cows, you kept them in whatever you had, whether it was a tiny stall or just a piece of rope tied to a tree.

If you was one of the few wealthy, you could afford lots of fence to keep cows in. And you would have a nice fat waist and all the skinny poor people would be jealous of you.

The old days.....Ha!

Peace,
Cass

[delta9]

For real, momma!

And I just reread this thread...

This movie "Peaceable Kingdom" is about love and following your heart. It features former farmers, one a 4th generation cattle farmer who goes around the country saying that the amount of animal products a person should eat is zero.
This poor fool has been taken in by some crafty people - or he's being paid to lie. In any case, the amount of animal products a person should eat is simply not 0. We'll have this debate again if you want, but I warn you, I've been researching ;)